The Vote of Mag Size (PLEASE VOTE)

Anyways, there has always been a lot of talk about mag sizes and what constitutes as fair, or realistic.

So VOTE, let your count be part of the decission.

Though this poll will likely not have a major effect on the games, it will let us know which direction that most players are in favor of going at the current time.

Hmmm, 25 votes and it is looking good. If you haven't voted, get in on it. I must be honest, I like what I am seeing but I doubt it represents all of our players.

Still, any comments on keeping mag sizings to our vote pattern for sim games?

-Doug

the biggest problem with it, and I know you've all heard it before, is money. You'd have to buy 4 locaps instead of one hicap.

4 locaps - $220
1 hicap - $70

Now I don't mind changing mags, in fact Id enjoy it if EVERYONE had to do it as well, but that is a large price difference.

Umm, 4 lows = $56, 1 high=$65

lows are cheaper, at least for armalites

KA mag group orders, get in on them, $14 a mag, tax and shipping included.

That and overseas orders, can get a ton of lows for other guns through Mag mags for the same price as a high.

-Doug

How's your math? 4 locaps = $220 (55 x 4 = 220)

What I was talking about is thus:

Hicap holds 300 rounds, that means you'd need 4 locaps to equal the same BB holding size for mags.

Drache wrote:

How's your math? 4 locaps = $220 (55 x 4 = 220)

What I was talking about is thus:

Hicap holds 300 rounds, that means you'd need 4 locaps to equal the same BB holding size for mags.

Drache, unless you have been out of the loop for awhile, nobody buys TM lowcaps from 007 anymore... There are many manufacturers that make great lowcaps now, full metal, 68 rnd. Shop smart... I am saying that it is cheaper to buys lows than highs. And yes, that has change all within the past year.

Hortons Heros wrote:

QUOTE FROM GUY

Hi Dave, you don't need to rush .. my next 2 orders aren't going out until March 30th....

the bag of KSC .20 BB's will have to be ordered on that order... so I can't ship your package until everything is in... unless you want to pay for split shipping.

For my King Arms order for this month, there is special pre-order price of $14 for the black KA m4/m16 standard mags... you might want to pass that along to your teammates.

Sooooo options are wait until everything comes and pay one shipping, this means the order will come in sometime in April.

Or cancel the preorder stuff and get what he has in stock and do a pre-order group order. What do you guys want to do.

since we do group orders over $500, free shipping... Yes, that is correct, $14 for a full metal 68rds armalite mag.

I refuse to buy KA Mags due to having a whole batch refuse to feed. They are known to have these bugs and are many posts about them. And just for your information, I never deal with 007, I go by special orders and what it cost me to order locaps when I had my M4.

And yeah I have been "out of the loop" for almost a year. But yeah, you can get a whole box of plastic mags for $90, even then they are 30 rounds and still cost more than a single hicap although not everyone wants plastic mags.

I'm not saying I'm against the locap rule but it's a rule all the clubs eventually give up on trying to implement due to people complaining about the costs.

Well, if not KA, then how about G&P mid-caps. I have a schwack of those which I ordered through Redwolf for ~$21 a piece. 3 of those are more than a highcap in BB count but again, are cheaper if order from overseas. Plastic mags are generally mid-cap sized now too, star died off with those real counts. If you are paying $55 a mag from group orders, someone is ripping off the participants.

For the complete unrealism of hi-caps rattling around in the fields, the winding whirl when your spring decompresses, etc. etc. really is a complete atmosphere ruiner. And, as is said in post after post, especially on ASC, airsoft is not a cheap sport.

Like said in the earlier post, we are looking at rules for our Sim games to create a more professional atmosphere. I don't care about highs in zombie games, hell I love my box mags, but in a Sim game, they really do become obnoxious.

Mind you, this debate was had before many times on this site. Like when we tried a point system for mags like they do out east, we decided that limiting the highs was good, but if someone wants to carry 20+ lows, let them.

Still, in the end, if someone new shows up at a game with a high, they play, it is not like we turn people away. For long term members of the club, we try to push getting more realistic kits. If someone is in for the long run, they will generally invest in it to make it all that much more enjoyable.

-Doug

I would LOVE to have a milsim with nothing but real caps, hell I have 10 of them at the moment lol. At the major milsims in the states are realcaps only although sadly people with guns like a CA M14, there is no such thing as a real, lo, mid, only hicaps.

Now, I haven't played with you guys on your turf, but the rules for most clubs in Alberta are as follows:

Lowcaps (under 80 rounds) = no limits
Midcaps (80-160 rounds) = 3-6 depending on club and game
Highcaps (160+ rounds) = 1 or prohibited depending on club and game

If you want to keep everyone happy, you may have to allow highcaps, but many clubs prohibit highcaps above 300 rounds, like 450 round AR, 500 round G3 and 600 round AK as examples.

Now, I use a PTW and the only mags available to civilians are the 120 round mags. They make 30 round and used to make 80 round, but they are only available to military/LE customers and in select countries.

Most of my games don't have mag limits, as they are too difficult to enforce and I like things to flow as smoothly as possible. Any advantage you gain by having 6000 rounds in 10 AK highcaps is quickly overshadowed by the intense rattling you make when you move. Loss of stealth doesn't overcome sustained fire from a Marui gun by any means.

Last I heard, the real caps for PTW's are available to licensed security guards

Drache wrote:

I would LOVE to have a milsim with nothing but real caps, hell I have 10 of them at the moment lol. At the major milsims in the states are realcaps only although sadly people with guns like a CA M14, there is no such thing as a real, lo, mid, only hicaps.

and you are absolutely right on that one. But geez, buyer beware on CA M14's anyways... Same goes for the P90, lows are the way to go, just next to impossible to get enough of them.

Still, when it goes to Armalites, AK's, every other M14, G36's (both normal and magwell adapted), MP5's, and SIG's, getting mags is both easy and cheap. We are living in a time of tons of china airsoft companies spewing out cheap and sometimes excellent products. So if someone is looking at their next mag purchase, shop around, you will be surprise at the variety available and the money you can save.

Now, if we want to talk about $55 mags, lets hit up the SystemA PTW's

-Doug

$55 mags for a PTW? Sign me up!! The cheapest you can get them is about that, but only from the U.S. and only if you cost average the shipping with alot of other parts. 6 mags boxed weighs over 10 pounds and shipping is brutal.

And 30 round mags are very rare. I have only seen 2 come up for sale used in the U.S. and most dealers don't stock them at all. Not even Z-Shot carries them. And you can't get them via Asia, you have to go to a Mil/LE PTW dealer. Not worth the effort or hassle.

You can always go semi-auto and half load your mags if you want realism.

macguyver wrote:

$55 mags for a PTW? Sign me up!! The cheapest you can get them is about that, but only from the U.S. and only if you cost average the shipping with alot of other parts. 6 mags boxed weighs over 10 pounds and shipping is brutal.

And 30 round mags are very rare. I have only seen 2 come up for sale used in the U.S. and most dealers don't stock them at all. Not even Z-Shot carries them. And you can't get them via Asia, you have to go to a Mil/LE PTW dealer. Not worth the effort or hassle.

You can always go semi-auto and half load your mags if you want realism.

Ha ha ha, yeah, $55 is cutting it close eh! That and Redwolf never seems to have any PTW stuff in stock anyways...

Yeah, half loading if the way to go, that is why I tend to get mid-caps over lows. Versatile whether you are wanting realism or bullet hosing.

Still, it is interesting to see the VN mag mods for the PTW's, shame that china hasn't cloned that planetary gear set-up yet. Not that the quality would be any good, it just would be nice to see some other gun styles with the similar internals. And in the PTW's case, mag size is pretty much limited to the one type (I have only seen 80rnd and 120rnd non-modded) so half loaded is the only possibility. But if you can afford a PTW, I am sure that getting a few mags is not that much of an issue. It will be interesting to see if eventually they will make knock-off brands of the mags too.

-Doug

I'm a little late here but low caps all the way.

I have midcaps for my rentals but with the points system and the alberta standard they can still carry lots of ammo with 3-6.

how do u vote?

I guess my vote will be for mediums. For economies sake I like the idea of mediums loaded to real capacities...it would allow for milsim and other games..but secretly...I love my drum mag.

The biggest argument for no high caps, IMHO, is not the maracca effect (learn to move quieter), but that winding up a mag SUCKS!

The argument that it is not realistic (using hi caps) is not very logical. first off bb's ar not very accurate and bounce off of trees twigs, leaves etc. bullets do not. peopls may or may not know that they have been tagged with a bb, people will deffinately know if they have been tagged with a bullet.

at normal engagement ranges with airsoft it is not uncommon to have to use 50 bb's or more before one hears "hit". whereas with real ammo at normal engagement ranges it should take no more than 2 rounds before you hear "unnggg" or "thud".

to be more realistic would be to allow more high caps as this would more closely approximate the ratio of bb's to bullets to ensure a hit. also the actions of people are different in real situations, they won't just run and yell charge or other suicidal behavior if someone is firing real rounds at them.

This is just my opinion mind you but it is a good idea to keep this game as close to real training as possible as it does increase it's appeal.

Brad

why dont you just load your hicaps with like 30 rounds than you can have a dual purpose mag.

am i the only one to have considered this?

highcaps don't work with fewer BBs, they unwind and won't load.

Thats why highcaps are the worst, im loving my midcap

PracticalTactical wrote:

The argument that it is not realistic (using hi caps) is not very logical. first off bb's ar not very accurate and bounce off of trees twigs, leaves etc. bullets do not. peopls may or may not know that they have been tagged with a bb, people will deffinately know if they have been tagged with a bullet.

at normal engagement ranges with airsoft it is not uncommon to have to use 50 bb's or more before one hears "hit". whereas with real ammo at normal engagement ranges it should take no more than 2 rounds before you hear "unnggg" or "thud".

to be more realistic would be to allow more high caps as this would more closely approximate the ratio of bb's to bullets to ensure a hit. also the actions of people are different in real situations, they won't just run and yell charge or other suicidal behavior if someone is firing real rounds at them.

This is just my opinion mind you but it is a good idea to keep this game as close to real training as possible as it does increase it's appeal.

Brad

I truly agree with Brad, especially about the bb vs bullet ratio. Most guns bought new, come with some sort of hi-cap. How do C-Mags fit into this? They are real world hicaps! lol I do have a bunch of real caps as well as high caps so I can play either way. So if you have only 3 midcaps, are you able to reload in the field? i can buzz through 3 midcaps in about a minute if i don't exercise any trigger control.

The limit on hicaps isn't to increase the realism of the bullet to bb ratio it's to keep a person with an AK from standing there and spraying 600 bb's without reloading. We're trying to simulate the actual time you'd be able to put bullets on target between mag changes. That's why we allow C mags and box mags for guns that are considered LMG's as they would be used for steady suppression fire while a M4, M16 or normal AK would only be used for momentary suppression as the standard size mag would quickly empty if they were just standing there spraying bullets.

I say hicaps are hicraps i love midcaps half load' em and your off

just get a hi cap and put 30 bbs in??!!