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 CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns

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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyThu 25 Feb 2010, 7:21 pm

There is a report here on ASC of the "Successful Legalization of Non-Transparent Airsoft Guns". Unfortunately ASC is only letting there asc verified members see it...sigh.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=99247

Briefly, the reporter is becoming a distributor bringing full metal guns to canada at reasonable pricing. This is done via his research and recent changes to the laws of the CBSA and the criminal act. Also he believes that having his shipped product upgraded to a higher fps will allow importing.

Specifically the CBSA now considers airsoft a 'uncontrolled' firearm. Not restricted or prohibited or replica.

from CBSA Memorandum D19-13-2 June 23, 2009
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d19/d19-13-2-eng.pdf

Quote :
"Firearms
4. For CBSA purposes only, all firearms are deemed to be one of two types: “uncontrolled” or “controlled”.

“Uncontrolled” firearms
5. “Uncontrolled” firearms are those devices that, although falling within the definition of a firearm in the Criminal Code, are exempt from specific legal requirements of the Firearms Act and its regulations, as well as from other legislative provisions. “Uncontrolled” firearms do not fall under Tariff item No. 9898.00.00, and are generally admissible into Canada. “Uncontrolled” firearms should not be subdivided into any of the non-restricted, restricted, or prohibited classes. The following types of firearms are deemed “uncontrolled”:

...
(d) Low muzzle velocity/energy guns – Any barrelled weapon that is not designed or adapted to discharge projectiles at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 metres per second (500 feet per second) and at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or to discharge projectiles that are designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 metres per second (500 feet per second) and an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules. Both thresholds of 152.4 mps and 5.7 Joules must be exceeded for the firearm to be considered “controlled”. This requirement exempts firearms that fire below the threshold velocity with a standard projectile, but exceed the threshold velocity when fired with a high-velocity projectile.

Note: The term air gun is a colloquial term referring to BB or pellet guns. Such guns operate either as spring-powered, gas-powered, or electrically powered. If the muzzle velocity of the air gun is less than 152.4 mps (500 fps)/5.7 joules but still able to cause serious bodily injury to a person, it may be considered an “uncontrolled” firearm. Most airsoft guns and certain types of paintball guns are considered replica firearms (see “Prohibited Devices” below).

So sounds good except for this reference that it is a 'Replica' right. Well the hopeful distributor gets around the 'replica' status by having the guns upgraded to a high enough fps that they are capable of bodily harm and thus not replicas;

Quote :
Prohibited Devices
General

49. A prohibited device is:
...
(e) a replica firearm.

Replica firearms
50. “Replica firearm” is defined as any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm.

51. For a device to be a replica firearm it must meet all three requirements:
(a) it cannot be a firearm, meaning it does not discharge a projectile with sufficient energy to cause serious bodily injury or death to a person. If the device is a firearm, then it cannot be a replica firearm (and vice versa);

54. (b) Most airsoft guns and certain types of paintball guns or markers are considered replica firearms. This is because the muzzle velocity of the projectile does not generally cause serious bodily harm and their external features are clearly designed to resemble a specific and readily identifiable make and model of a firearm. The jurisprudence has established that to consider a firearm within the meaning of s. 2 of the Criminal Code, an airsoft gun must have a muzzle velocity in excess of 124 meters per second (407 feet per second). Therefore, due to their strong resemblance to real firearms and their lack of capacity to cause serious bodily injury, most airsoft guns (and some paintball guns) are generally considered replica firearms.

So you see here he is avoiding references to it being a replica and thus prohibited by making them 'capable of bodily harm'...or greater than 407 fps.
It is through this agreement with out of country suppliers, to upgrade to 430 fps that he hopes to have an exclusive ability to import AS guns that didnt exist before....except for the very next line in this document:

Quote :
Exception: The following goods generally do not meet the definition of prohibited weapon, and thus do not fall under tariff item 9898.00.00. Their misuse may nonetheless be punishable under other laws:
(a) an air gun or BB/pellet gun that resembles a real make and model of a firearm may not be a replica firearm if it is an “uncontrolled” firearm (see “Uncontrolled” firearms).

So looks like we now ALL have the ability to import full metal guns. Please let me know if there is something I missed...but this seems very clear.

All quotes above are taken from the CBSA Memorandum D19-13-2 found on their website here:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d19/d19-13-2-eng.html
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyThu 25 Feb 2010, 10:19 pm

Ok great if what he says is true great but he has alot of the gun laws wrong. He even contradicts him self in calling airsoft guns fire arms then calling them non-fire arms. The definition of firearm has nothing to do with causing people bodily harm. A fire arm must shoot over 500 FPS and certain Joules as he stated if it doesn't it doesn't matter what it is it's not a firearm. It's because of misinterpretations like that, that has caused so much B.S. in the first place.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyThu 25 Feb 2010, 10:25 pm

Exactly...and in classic ASC style my reward for bothering to point it out, is to be lipped off...sigh...why do I bother?

The real cool thing is maybe this means traveling out of Canada to attend something like Lions Claw may now be possible!
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyThu 25 Feb 2010, 10:31 pm

Cool, hopefully this works out.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptySat 27 Feb 2010, 4:26 pm

Bill, you have to read it over a couple times, but I believe Mikhail is correct. The new definition takes advantage of the legal loophole for airsoft guns that shoot between 407 and 500 fps and has classified them as uncontrolled firearms rather than replica firearms like other airsoft guns. The problem would be that you'd still have trouble as an individual attempting to import them as CBSA would be sure to seize anything for testing to ensure it meets the criteria before allowing it in.

"The term air gun is a colloquial term referring to BB or pellet guns. Such guns operate either as spring-powered, gas-powered, or electrically powered. If the muzzle velocity of the air gun is less than 152.4 mps (500 fps)/5.7 joules but still able to cause serious bodily injury to a person, it may be considered an “uncontrolled” firearm. Most airsoft guns and certain types of paintball guns are considered replica firearms (see “Prohibited Devices” below)."

I've always considered trips out of Canada for airsoft possible. With the lower prices on guns down south you could take all your gear, mags, etc... and buy a gun down there and after the event dismantle the gun and bring back whatever parts you can legally import and sell them off up here for close to what you paid for the entire gun in the US. Smile
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptySat 27 Feb 2010, 6:19 pm

Looks like Capitol Airsoft is already gearing up for this Smile http://albertaairsoft.com/store/
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptySat 27 Feb 2010, 8:00 pm

I think the 'Note' you quote from isn't phrased well, and has less weight then this line from the actual definition:

"Both thresholds of 152.4 mps and 5.7 Joules must be exceeded for the firearm to be considered “controlled”."

This appears to say definitively, that above this threshold it is controlled. And as the only other option as stated in this memo, is uncontrolled then if it fails this threshold>uncontrolled.

No vague references to that unhelpful word 'may'.

In my reading online the past couple a days, I came across a CBSA document recommending two methods of reviewing a airsoft gun. It said you could get the fps from the manual that came with it, or refer to the manufacturer website on it.

I have 2 questions...

1) Can you even make a 5.7 joule Airsoft gun?

2) Has there ever been an airsoft gun manufacturered (not upgraded) that was over 5.7 J AND 500 FPS?

The right answer to these questions (honestly) wins us the break we have looking for...thus no seizing and sending to Ontario for testing
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptySun 19 Dec 2010, 10:46 pm

Are there any CBSA folks here?

I have created this document to aid in facilitating the out of country retailers considering shipping to Canada, and to aid Border inspectors who may have to inspect an airsoft shipment.

My thought is to send this to the retailer to assure him that importing legally to Canada IS possible, and to give him a tool to include with the shipment for the inspector to review and aid in making a decision in keeping with the border services rules.

http://mike.heimdallson.com/airsoft/importing_airsoft_in_to_canada.pdf

If there IS any CBSA here, would this aid an inspector?

I did this because I found I was having the same discussion over and over with differant retailers, and wanting something I could offer, that was logical, up front, and yet thorough in describing how the airsoft importing rules have changed.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyTue 04 Jan 2011, 1:35 pm

Have you had any luck importing with this?
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyTue 04 Jan 2011, 2:36 pm

I've just off the phone with a US retailer and they do ship AEG to Canada with good success (Dragonov (sp?) was held up for a week but released). I'm going to send them Mikhail's document for them to review, and then I will make a trial order. These guys were tickled to have a new market.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyWed 05 Jan 2011, 6:55 am

So far so good. Another black shottie has just been added to collection. Waiting to see how my in coming CA P90 and mp5K PDW do.

As well I have my eyes on a 'real' support weapon for acquisition in February. I will keep everyone informed.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyWed 05 Jan 2011, 10:45 pm

What retailers have you guys been ordering from? Any interest in trying a group order?
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyThu 06 Jan 2011, 12:55 am

interested


Not sure if doinga group order or more induvidual tests is the way to go. If it gets seized in a group order they all get seized.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyFri 21 Jan 2011, 6:06 pm

Have your other guns come in Mike?

I just assume you guys are using evike.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyFri 21 Jan 2011, 6:17 pm

Not in yet. I have an option to order from Evike, but these are coming via a US friend.
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PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptySat 22 Jan 2011, 2:26 pm

are they hung up at customs or just taking their time through the post.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptySat 22 Jan 2011, 2:55 pm

Nope...they haven't been mailed yet...I got a bunch of stuff coming thru my friend, some of which doesn't come till the 4th. Its getting mailed then. I am cheap that way. Smile

One of the things my friend does, is remove any fake bullets from the mags (like the p90) as fake bullets are still a nono in Canada.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptySat 22 Jan 2011, 3:51 pm

Keep us updated on here and if yours makes it through I am going to take my chances with an evike shotty.
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns EmptyMon 31 Jan 2011, 7:32 pm

heya, i was wondering if your order got through and i was doing some lookin into the american market and am wonder if this could/would be able to get through with your method. Very interested in getting a new gun since my M4 is being so difficult.

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=139_24_360&products_id=6045
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CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty
PostSubject: Re: CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns   CBSA Memo D19-13-2 allows us to import Full metal Guns Empty

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