N.I.A.- Northern Interior Airsoft
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N.I.A.- Northern Interior Airsoft

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PostSubject: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 1:39 pm

As we get more organized...sort of...and get more members wanted to put out some thoughts on becoming an NIA member. Right now all you have to do is sign-up on the site and you are in. I was thinking that to be a member you should have to

attend 5 games
buy a badge

Looking for your thoughts as veteran members of the NIA and new guys and gals.
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 2:10 pm

Yeah, I have no problem with elitism. Most clubs have trial periods for beginners in which they are showed the ropes, meet the members, and learn to work as a team. Five club games should be sufficient.

Ummm, if badges are required, did we order extras as a club so people can easily buy them as they become part of the team?

Also, I would really like to see the introduction of units/squads. People who play together more often and form specific teams and roles. This would really help the club when playing against the evil outside teams Razz i.e. an urban/CQB trained squad, a rural/field support squad, a heavy weapons squad (got to use those cannons).

This club went through a lot of trial and error in its first year, we are still ironing things out. It would be nice to have a strong central core of members that work and support the club.

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 2:37 pm

we have 74 badges coming and something like 35 or 40 are called so far.

For units in my mind they would be split up by camo, Woodland team, cadpat team, black team etc. Within those groups to have people that do specific jobs like heavy machine gun, recon, anti vehicle. With that system someone like Chinese could be recon and be recon for almost every team with all his gear set-ups. There is ownership to your position and you can play more than one team if you have the gear encouraging people to get into their gear a bit more.

Most people either stick with or drop airsoft after 5 games, I also think it gives people sometime to learn the game. More thoughts are welcome
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 3:01 pm

Yeah, camo tends to represent the area you are fighting in. Urban black is, well, urban. It is a good idea to link camo due to the unified look of the squad. If you want to be part of a squad, get the squad camo... A wee bit expensive perhaps but, hey, you can also join the plain clothes squad Smile

I think a good revision to the list is:

-participate on the club website (if possible)
-attend 5 games
-own a gun (preferably a main gun, ie AEG)
-have a set of gear (camo, proper footwear, goggles, etc)
-buy a badge

If a person doesn't own a gun or want to get gear, I really don't think they are too interested in becoming a member... Nothing wrong with that, they can remain a casual player, and continue to rent, etc.

What the club should do is create incentives to becoming a member, ie access to sqauds, access to restricted parts of the website, access to the parts bin, etc.

-Doug
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PostSubject: Yea   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 7:10 pm

Yea, this sounds like a great idea, i know my opinion doesn't matter too much right now as i'm new, but i going to get some gear / guns soon, so i think that this is a good idea. And, would the people who joined on the old system be members automatically, or would we have to meet the criteria as well?
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PostSubject: :D   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 7:15 pm

Ooh,... ooh, and we could make up squad names and badges, and put the squad badge under the NIA badge Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 7:19 pm

To be fair I would think old or new, 5 games to become a member... also how does this apply to guys who come for a year of school? Do they still count?

Anyways,
Quote :
I think a good revision to the list is:

-participate on the club website (if possible)
-attend 5 games
-own a gun (preferably a main gun, ie AEG)
-have a set of gear (camo, proper footwear, goggles, etc)
-buy a badge

If a person doesn't own a gun or want to get
gear, I really don't think they are too interested in becoming a
member... Nothing wrong with that, they can remain a casual player, and
continue to rent, etc.

I agree, if the person doesn't sell out the cash then they can't be too serious, its like coming out with a springer and wanting to join the club...

I think the 5 games, should be stressed as a probational period, as, if you mess up you may not be giving too many chances..? I don't think it should just be, come and play 5 games and your in a club... Yah!

Anyways, I guess I won't see most of you for a while anyways, and by the time I get back Horton will be done for the summer...
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 7:29 pm

I agree Beach, leniency is manditory! No hard butt hazing and introductory stuff, 5 games, got your gun and gear, and you are good to go!

We ALL make and made mistakes, I am not going to slam some n00b. Buuuuttttt... gear and gun, that is all I really want to add to the list... If a person is serious, they will slap down the hard earned cash to have some fun. Sure it may take a person some time to get all that but when they do, it will seem so much better.

Walk into the game that day with your gear and gun, you have already played 8 games and now you have what it takes. The club gathers around you, congratulates you, takes your money for the badge, and YOU ARE IN!!! YEAH!!!! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 9:26 pm

I don't think people should be able to buy a team patch unless they've attended 5 club games and have shown that they are committed to remaining active playing members. (ie. bought their own gun and gear and showing up for the odd game)
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyFri 16 Feb 2007, 9:27 pm

What about this, those 5 games start once you have your gun and gear?
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptySun 18 Feb 2007, 11:25 pm

I like this 5 game probaition better than the "5 and your in."

Sketchy everyones ideas have value here so post away. I would love to get to the point where we have so many players that we have squads...

Gear is a must to the sport as it is a Milsim game and that is part of the game. I'm with Smith on his thoughts for this.

I would say if someone has proven themselves as a competent in playing and saftey for 5 games that as soon as they get their gear together that they should be considered in.
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptySun 18 Feb 2007, 11:43 pm

I like the idea of having certain people performing certain functions within squads. It takes some of the pressure off serious multitasking and lends focus on a specific task.
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyMon 19 Feb 2007, 6:22 pm

I like the 5 games probation, and having your own gun and gear. I don't think people should have to wait till they have there own gun before the 5 games count starts, that wouldn't be fair to those that have shelled out cache to rent guns. I also think that roles in the squad should be based off of gear as well, ie. boonies are recon, helmets are grunts/attack teams. That kind of thing. Also I think who ever has been in a squad the longest, (also looking back of the games played before this came up) should be the one in charge of it. I'm thinking of Yuurei and the urban/swat squad as an example. These are just my thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyMon 19 Feb 2007, 7:36 pm

With the guns and gear, I would tend to think that those who have spent the money on them are looking into something more long term. It is fine for guys to rent, and yah if you don't have the money right now then that's fine, but guns and gear kind of seal the deal...

Kind of off topic, but out here to attend any big milsims, one must participate in a boot camp, which is put on once every few months. They teach you basic skills so that you can be somewhat effective on the field... in some way I would think that you'd have to do something like this to be part of the club... rather than just us running around 'paintballing' it... it'll get us back on teams and binomes... where's Nick?
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyMon 19 Feb 2007, 10:54 pm

He's working in the bush agian. If you read this Nick I have your pouch from Mike.

I have thought about doing trainging days with some ex-military guys like Joe who are around and if we pay them a bit they could come out and do a boot camp day.
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 12:25 am

When I did the binome training with Nic, the only realistic training you can do with Airsoft is CQB. Real steel you want to shoot from 100's of meters, not 100's of feet. Nic stated that you empty as much as you can at them hoping to injure and then exit the area before the artillery hits you. When was the last time we ever had any real threat from artillery?

We have to be honest, Airsoft is not like real steel. Airsoft boot camps are teaching you how to play Airsoft, binome as airsoft, team as airsoft. Some great videos on the net about this. I think that some of the experienced players should run a boot-camp. You all have had experience playing other teams now, maybe a road-trip to an actually Mil-sim would give some additional insight. It seems silly for us to run a Mil-Sim when many of us have never played one.

Now, Joe and Frag can teach us proper techniques and skills and are great for doing Mil-Sim. They can teach us and tell stories about what the military is actually like. It is up to the experienced players though to get the nessessary Airsoft skills and teach them. There is a reason why more experienced players do better on the field, they may not have the best guns, but they know how to move, how to shoot, and the limitations that Airsoft imposes.

As a club we tend to throw the gun at the grunt and say go at it. Maybe we should take the responsibility to teach and demonstrate proper skills.

If we are running a boot camp, we should invite some people from E.A.R., CIA, and other long-time running clubs. They can give us the skills that come with playing Airsoft for a long time.

5 club games, with your own gear, is manditory as a member. But maybe we should look at mentorship for new players too. Stick experienced players with new players. 5 games hanging out with an experienced player is more valuable than 5 games being on the t-shirt team with the rest of the n00bs. We really need to take responsibility for making sure new players are trained properly and feel welcomed. Too often we stick the n00bs on one team and the skilled on the other.

If we want games less-painballish then we need to impose more serious consequences on dying. Less zombie spawning, more planning and slow movement. Mind you, all field play is no fun either, we need to take advantage of the CQB environments and materials that PG has.

I think that a new player may be turned off playing airsoft due to not feeling welcomed, un-balanced play, and lack of diversity of playing experience. Preditor Paintball offers a great range of play, from buildings and forest, to a CQB range. Busters really is busted. Unless we can get a shovel up there and do some digging, the field really is bland, flat, and shows the range limits of Airsoft in a bad way.

Just my two cents here... Still, ROADTRIPS!!!! It is amazing how much you learn by playing other players!

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 1:06 am

2 words... meat shields... haha jk
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 2:07 am

lol, guilty as charged... Most of that writing is a self-reflection Razz

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 2:40 am

I would agree that not every skill those who are ex-green machine have are usefull to airsoft but movement, working in teams and communication are things that can convert straight over. Our experienced players lonewolf mostly because nobody knows how to work as an effictive team. They have more sucess just doing it on their own so they do. Teamwork is something that has to be taught and worked on and reinforced by someone who knows how to use it.

I'm not sure what you mean by less paintballish games. Our respawn rules arn't found in paintball. They are there so that a game can last longer because a player can re-enter a game after being eliminated. Paintball is fast games that have no respawns. We don't have a player base of 50 to use at a bigger game to call in reinforcements. Our respawn rules at the two bigger games we have done both took players out of the game for a signifigant enough time that it made you think twice before moving from cover.

I would disagree that busters is no good. It offers what smaller areas like PB fields can't. A chance to move, recon and react as a small group for more than 5 mins before you walk right on top of the opposing team. As we saw from the MIA/NIA game that with 18 people in predators bushball it was never quiet for more than 5 mins before another firefight broke out. It gives a larger area that requirers more skilled players to not shoot at everything they can see, use camo and movement to stalk and move in on someone instead of always bumping into people like on a PB field. The PB fields encourage overly brave movment from convient pile of logs to well placed bunkers...forest play makes you think more and use the land for advantage rather than knowing there is always man made cover up ahead.

We want to welcome in new players but from experience it takes away from the game to mix those with and without gear. Those with gear want to play the role they spent the time and money for. Those who are new want to get a taste of the game for as cheap as possible. Someone like Jackboot is clearly showing that he has interest by spending good money on guns and working on his gear so he can eventually play the military side of the game.

There is no CQB at predator. There is a speedball field but definatly nothing that would resemble a CQB. PG doesn't have an indoor place to play which makes it near to impossible to set-up a CQB. The one resource we don't have is tonnes of cash to rent a building that could be used for close quarters. A pallet house in the forest does not resemble a CQB environment.

I think we do an excellent job welcoming new players by giving them a chance to try the game without having to shell out all the money that it takes to start. They can rent out guns/gear, play with and agianst all players at smaller games but our longer games we try and make sure there is a reason for people to get serious about their load out and we have to separte those who have and don't have the fitting gear.

In the end we are just a bunch of weekend warriors that want to hang out and shoot at stuff. Some of us love to shoot all day while others like to walk in the bush for hours and have no contact. We run both types of games and they definatly should not be mistaken as the same intenion. A game of zombies is a warm up and small fields make short games. A 6 hour game at busters 2 where nobody has contact for over an hour and 1/2 is an attempt to make people work for action and kills and not get 12 kills in a day because their gun shoots the best.
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 3:59 am

Hmmm, maybe I have been thinking about Airsoft too much. The PG game has changed soo much from when it started. I rarely see any of the old timers out at the new games and that is not always a bad thing, fresh blood is good. I am guilty of nearly everything I write here, that is why I am writing it, cause we all need to take the responsibility. I am also not alone in investing lots of time and money in this sport. But having played other teams and seeing the investment that they all put in, makes me realize how much of the PG club burden is riding on a select few backs. Other clubs charge $20+ an event, but the money is worth it. Many members invest weekends not playing, but working on fields. Like I said, Busters would be great if we got a shovel out there. But we need everyone to chip in to make it work.

But hey, I said the green is good, got lots to teach, we just need to balance it out with other experience too. We do not have much in the way of Airsoft experience in PG. Most players have been playing for a year or less. PG needs commited members to make teams work. We pick up bad habits and create them due to the lack of proper training. When we do get the proper training from folks like Nic, I notice that much of it is rarely taken seriously.

I was quoting Beach there with: (rather than just us running around 'paintballing' it). When we play, there is a lot of paintball elements, respawn included. Respawn is an intergral part of paintball, not speedball. Playing airsoft in PG is really similar to paintball, standard attack the base, get the flag, kill the other guys, etc. What sets Airsoft apart is the MilSim. Where people dress the part, talk the part, act the part. Airsoft is LARP (Live Action Role Play). How often do we see people not caring that people can see them, people standing around talking instead of playing, especially after they have died. Too often it is hard to distinguish between alive and dead. The fear of being shot is not there, no repercussions. I like the relaxed atmosphere of Airsoft but the lack of respect kind of ruins it sometimes.

Look at TTAC3, it is a modular wall construction. Speed ball range has lots of walls and is movement intensive, thus CQB. There are numerious crates and wood materials around town. I have picked up wood and beams and brought it to Busters. We have set up small bases out of the materials available and stuff brought. I would really like to see more of an investment in the fields that we play in. Busters 2 is awesome but everytime we play there, people complain that it is too far to walk, people don't bring enough water, etc... I have no problem paying more if it means that the fields would be improved. What I would hate to see happen though is a repeat of the Boneyard and the loss of our investment.

We do a better job now welcoming people than we did in the past (much better in fact). Even calling people n00bs is insulting especially if the people playing have had years of experience in related sports and life. Brought up years ago was the thought of loaner gear so we wouldn't have people in t-shirts and stuff. If everyone in the club donated one piece of old gear, we could prolly make a few sets of gear. I for one will throw my Cadpat pants in the pile. Then we can mix teams up better and have less segregation.

Maybe I am looking for middle ground. Have weekends that dedicate more to a style of game then a bunch of disjointed games. A good field would mean a variety of objectives, not the same one over and over again. Props are a great helper, artillery adds an interesting element, vehicles are great. I miss some elements of the boneyard due to the shear amount of junk that is there. Streams, bases, vehicles, lots of variety.

I guess this is the same thing I have been saying for the last 8 months but we need a dedicated field. A field would solve all of our problems and give us a homebase to work out of. Everyone knows where it is, people can go there and work on it off-hours, something in which we can call home. I always feel so homeless in PG due to skipping from one field to another. Busters potentially could have it all, between Busters One and Two. If we can get more scrap out there, then yeah, make our own modular CQB, cut some good trails in the brush, make some trenches. MilSim is all about the fortification and Busters has some excellent stuff in place but it could have soo mcuh more.

Enough thread de-railing here, hopefully new players don't get the wrong idea here. PG Airsoft is one of the premium Airsoft clubs around. We have a dedicated player base with some very passionate players. We now offer upgrade services, a huge rental selection, a supportive community, and a selection of players with everything from airsoft, to military, to paintball, to carpentery, and history experience. I think PG has what it takes to host a provincial MilSim. Just donate some time, tools, equipment, and/or money and we can make the best field around.

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 1:48 pm

I have an extra vest I can donate...

Anyways, the reason I said the part about 'Paintballing it' is because I do feel like that is the way the club has been going lately. The best game/training day I have ever had was when we worked on binomes with Nick and Geoff being the instructors. We seemed to soak it up like a sponge and I felt that our play went up a level, but lately it seems that we have thrown that little bit of training out the window... we just don't care, and I leave each day with feel that I do after I have gone paintballing...
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 2:05 pm

most of the games we play now are in the dead of winter which only really accomidates shorter guning games. I missed the training and I run most of the games so it makes sense that I have no idea how to incorporate those elements into games.

When #'s are low and it's winter there is only so much we can do. Playing at a smaller field like predator doesn't help at all, there is no room to use group skills.

Beachy your thinking is why I want to get someone in to lead a day of training here and there.

It's not that I don't care it's that I don't know how to teach and use these skills that Nic brought.
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 2:08 pm

I will see if I can find a few links on practical training and post them. I had some bookmarked but my comp crashed and I lost them. I will try to re find them.
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 2:40 pm

Okay maybe saying that we don't care is a little harsh, and I retract my statement, but I think it is important as a club that we reset our focus onto proper play. Even if there's only 4 people, rather than running and gunning practice, practice... that way, when we finally get our butts to another milsim somewhere we won't be completely worked....

Horton, we really need to make you a new avatar....
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Hortons Heros
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Hortons Heros


Number of posts : 3838
Age : 40
Location : Intown
Registration date : 2005-10-26

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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club EmptyTue 20 Feb 2007, 3:49 pm

I thought you would like that....
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PostSubject: Re: Part of the club   Part of the club Empty

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