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 Under Underage players

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beach_boy
Gryph
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twsmith
Knightwarrier
Hortons Heros
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Should Minors be allowed?
Yes
Under Underage players Vote_lcap25%Under Underage players Vote_rcap
 25% [ 4 ]
No
Under Underage players Vote_lcap13%Under Underage players Vote_rcap
 13% [ 2 ]
Only 16+
Under Underage players Vote_lcap62%Under Underage players Vote_rcap
 62% [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 16
 

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Hortons Heros
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PostSubject: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyWed 21 Nov 2007, 7:37 pm

Had a short talk with another mod a few weeks ago. Should be allow players under 16 if they are accompanied by their parents?

My thoughts are it's fine as long as the parent proves themselves responsible first at a game. It must be the parent that comes with them and not an older buddy. They must rent all of my guns and carry me around the field like a king taking my hits for me...

If the answer is yes the question is how young? I would say 14 (can drive a car in alberta) they should be able to handle an airsoft gun with their parents right there. If you are jewish you might say 13 so that you can host barmitzfa airsoft games...

is there a minimum age for paintball?

Remember the early days with Dan...he was 14 and nobody noticed. Heck he was more responsible than most of us!
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyWed 21 Nov 2007, 7:40 pm

anyones thoughts are welcome (underage or not...in this club or not)
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Knightwarrier
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyWed 21 Nov 2007, 8:29 pm

my 11 yr old informed me that he was allowed to play paintball at 10 yrs. He went to a birthday party and the only supervision was an 18 yr old that drove them to the paintball arena. It's my 13 yr old that I want to come with me.

Under Underage players November2k7081kj9.th
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyWed 21 Nov 2007, 9:07 pm

For local/private games, if the parent/guardian is playing and the kid has demonstrated responsible behaviour (safety and fairplay) I don't see a problem with having him/her out. I believe kids as young as 12 can hunt under direct supervision of their parent/guardian so I don't see this as too much of a stretch. But there's no crying in airsoft, if they can't take a hit then they shouldn't be on the field! Parents should also keep in mind that some of us tend to have potty-mouth syndrome and that the kids will likely be exposed to some pretty nasty language. I'll try to curb my tongue, but no promises. Smile

I think for milsims we should keep our existing age requirements as we tend to have a much larger field with greater chance of getting seperated from the other players and possibly lost in the bush.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyWed 21 Nov 2007, 9:38 pm

potty mouth, he's a truck drivers son.... lol. I have to try to keep him from saying shoit.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyWed 21 Nov 2007, 11:01 pm

Though I prefer to judge in a case by case situation, I do agree with Smith on MilSims or at least games that are involving lots of out-of-town players (very very rare indeed).

NIA does have a responsibility to the Airsoft community and it is VERY important that we uphold basic standards and practices. If we hit the news and it is found that we have has sales to minors, minors involved in games, and a general lack of respect towards the "ASC" rules, then we look at chastisement from the larger community.

Now, in Knightwarriors case, since he is actively involved in the game, I see little issue involving family in the game. Mind you, this does create issues of supervision and "other" issues as seen with Atreyu (child molestation). If his son is by his side at all times, fine, one gets called out, both go and sit. No ands ifs or buts!!! I am very serious about this, due to legal obligations and current issues raise both in the national airsoft and the legal scene. We CANNOT have something happen and loose everything over something bending the rules. I feel that Knightwarrier is responsible enough for this, but it remains to be seen in actual play (which I am sure will prove effective).

So, in summary:

-Requires the clubs consent, if everyone is not happy, not happening, end of story.

-We face serious legal obligations by allowing this, we must maintain the rules and allow flexibility, else we can have some very very serious problems on our hands.

-As per supervision rules, parent must ACCOMPANY the minor, at no times leave their side, as seen with gun ranges and hunting. NO ENDS, IFS, OR BUTS!!!!


Otherwise, lets see how this vote turns out (just added) and hope for this best. I feel that have family involved is a good thing, allow for the development of long-term players, but we must be VERY careful and not let this run un-checked...

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyWed 21 Nov 2007, 11:29 pm

twsmith wrote:
For local/private games, if the parent/guardian is playing and the kid has demonstrated responsible behaviour (safety and fairplay) I don't see a problem with having him/her out. I believe kids as young as 12 can hunt under direct supervision of their parent/guardian so I don't see this as too much of a stretch.

Acualy it's ten years old. However these kids are usualy vary strictly supervised to a level that can not be met when you are running from others. I also think that we should stick to the rules we already have of 16+. If we start letting in one feloows kid thats 14 and responsible but till another his 15 year old can't be trusted inuf we're going to be steping on someones toes here. and I don't no what the legal situation is but I don't want to risk it.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 12:50 am

chatbox
9:50pm

Cancel that I am just going to bed.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 2:21 am

I agree with Billy. I think we should leave the age limit were it is. No exceptions. The only reason I would want to stay strictly to no exceptions is the fact that once we make one, what is stopping us from doing it again, and again? This way we have our minimum age, which will ensure that we cannot get around it, even if they're with a parent the entire time.

We should consider ourselves lucky, as the fields out here do not allow 16 year olds to play, they're allowed to come watch, and take pictures, but are not physically allowed to pick up a gun and fire them at people... in a game situation that is.

I do believe Doug is on to something as well, NIA does have a responsibility to the Airsoft community. I think that stands on its own, and with the exceptions already made, with allowing 16 year olds to play, I think we should leave it be. As a club, I believe that we should not allow even more underages play. 16 and over period.

Sorry to any of you who have kids this young, but I do believe it is necessary to set a limit somewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 6:26 am

Good points all around. I never even considered the Atreyu incident, but issues like that have had a huge impact on kids hockey, etc... It's so bad now that a coach can't even give his players a ride home from the arena. They treat all adults as if they're potential molesters.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 6:13 pm

Looking at the votes we are going to keep it 16+ thanks for your thoughts and input.

The Canada standard is 18+ with the 16+ exception. In most other clubs 16-18 have to be parent supervised so we really are the exception anyway.

Sorry to those who are under 16 or who have kids under 16 but we are doing this to keep the standards set across Canada and to continue to protect airsoft in Canada.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 6:23 pm

or be like Opra Winfrey and spend millions to build an all girls school
in Africa and have it shut down because all the girls were getting
abused.... but whatever if that's the clubs feelings, not much I can do
bout it. Just a note about the "young" ones. I'm sure you all heard
about the bad accident on foothills a few weeks back, really foggy head
on collision, 5 ppl sent to hospital, did you know that the first
people on the scene were a mom and 11yr old son that both attended to
the crash victems. They both have thier emergency first aid. The woman
works for the school district and maintains her first aid for her job
and the 11 year old got his through the Navy League (Jr Sea Cadets) and
both assesed and started administering first aid b4 the paramedics
arrived. Just my point bieng youth doesn't need babysitting as much as
you think. (BTW the woman and kid are my wife and son.) Also the boy I
wanted to bring is also in army Cadets, IS in the Marsmanship program
and is in the Honor Guard. He was one of the rifleman at the cenataf for this years Rememberance Day cerimony. So not all youth are created equal. So maybee insted of playing airsoft him and I will go to the range instead.


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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 7:58 pm

I understand where your coming from Knight, and I really wish I could get myself to say to go ahead and let your kids come, but like I stated above, it is not just the NIA reputation we are playing with, it is all of Canada's, as whatever we do effects Airsoft in Canada. As Dave has already said we have made an exception, and we are the exception already. I don't think its fair to have under age players patiently waiting all over Canada and then have us allow them to play with open arms.

I think we all know that 11 year old kids, or younger can act and do many things much grown men, or women for that matter. They can often be more responsible and can look after themselves, as it seems with yours, but the thing is we have to set an age limit somewhere.

For instance, I'm guiding an Ocean Kayaking trip down in Mexico this Christmas, and we had set our age limit to 'adult' so like 18+. A client, whom we deal with a lot, and is one of the best canoing guides in Saskatchewan, and whom has mapped most of the Rivers in Northern Saskatchewan, contacted us asking if him and his kids aged 13, and 16 were allowed to participate. The funny thing is that his kids have probably spent more time in the outdoors paddling than all of us 3 guides put together. So as my fellow guides and I conversed and we felt that it would be an amazing learning experience to have all 3 come, but in the end we decided to turn them down one the fact that we had set our age limit before. We decided that the exception of one would turn into many, and we would have other clients asking us the question of why Rick's kids got to come, and their's weren't.

Holy Cow I wrote a lot. In summary, we are the exception already, let's leave it be.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 8:04 pm

hahahaaa The 11 yr old is going to a Sea Cadet Onboard, it's the 13 year old I wanted to bring. But obviously by the vote its already been decided.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 8:40 pm

Knightwarrier wrote:
hahahaaa The 11 yr old is going to a Sea Cadet Onboard, it's the 13 year old I wanted to bring. But obviously by the vote its already been decided.

I understand that what you mean but due to the fact airsoft being such awful grey zone of Canadian Firearms there is no way for minors to play until some kind of legislation is implemented; it already hard enough for us as community to play decked out commandos lol.

We ourselves as group have to abide certain obligations from Airsoft Canada Community and play everything in professional manner and rules. Generally, you can always bring along your kids and attend to games to watch and give a wealth knowledge of safety of firearm, and I fully support any parents to teach children of safety and awareness of usage of any firearms (knowledge is everything).

Don't be discourage at all what we said that you can't bring your 13 years old, as I said before it great to kids to learn early than later. When he at 16 then at least he knows the basic rules of airsoft and it will be enjoyable experience for him along side with him.

Remember everyone started airsofting at 18+ and we all probably dream about airsoft at the age of 16 and drool on our pillows.. I know I did lol
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 8:51 pm

Don't forget, there are always privately organized games. Airsoft in PG is not entirely NIA. In fact, there are many players who have never even heard of this site and have organized their own backyard clubs.

Now, I am VERY against that due to legal issues and the risk to the sport in PG. We have worked hard with the local police and Rod&Gun Club to maintain a professional image. As seen with some of the people who have came to this club, we have chased them away with our rules and regulations. Many people do not want to be told what they are doing is illegal. It is viewed as harmless and fun toy guns. Except, yeah, when you spend more on an Airsoft gun then the real steel equivalent, they really are no longer toys guns but something else.

I am glad that people discussed and voted on this issue so quickly. It is good to see some club participation.

Now, with all this said. I WANT A CLUB DAY. People get together, show off their toys and gear, have some demonstrations and conversations on Mechbox repair and upgrading, and show what is available to players other than just Crappy Tire guns. Also, set up some targets and let people fine tune their guns. This would be open to all players AND their family. It would be a good way to get people to meet up together and maybe have some of these discussions in person. I think that would be the best approach Smile

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 9:59 pm

Yuu wrote:
Knightwarrier wrote:
hahahaaa The 11 yr old is going to a Sea Cadet Onboard, it's the 13 year old I wanted to bring. But obviously by the vote its already been decided.

I understand that what you mean but due to the fact airsoft being such awful grey zone of Canadian Firearms there is no way for minors to play until some kind of legislation is implemented; it already hard enough for us as community to play decked out commandos lol.

We ourselves as group have to abide certain obligations from Airsoft Canada Community and play everything in professional manner and rules. Generally, you can always bring along your kids and attend to games to watch and give a wealth knowledge of safety of firearm, and I fully support any parents to teach children of safety and awareness of usage of any firearms (knowledge is everything).

Don't be discourage at all what we said that you can't bring your 13 years old, as I said before it great to kids to learn early than later. When he at 16 then at least he knows the basic rules of airsoft and it will be enjoyable experience for him along side with him.

Remember everyone started airsofting at 18+ and we all probably dream about airsoft at the age of 16 and drool on our pillows.. I know I did lol

By the time I was 16 I owed 2 .22's and a 12 ga. at 17 or 18 I purchased a .223 this was all b4 the bill c-68 came to pass.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 10:54 pm

Knightwarrier wrote:

By the time I was 16 I owed 2 .22's and a 12 ga. at 17 or 18 I purchased a .223 this was all b4 the bill c-68 came to pass.

Well, that's awhile ago before C-68 as you stated. Time always change very few of the past remains.. I wish I could have had my pal before I was 16 but I had my PAL when I was 18 and i'm still happy about it to have a few real firearms. If obtaining a PAL allowed you to obtain airsoft guns that would be great, but however that never will happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 11:19 pm

When I was 16, I had a .22, a .30-30 and an airgun. But those days are long gone and will never be back again. Those were also the days when you could have 2 rifles on a rack in the rear window of your truck and a .357 in the glove box, and nobody cared. Now, if you even mention "gun" in public, you will have trouble coming your way.

I realize the ability of young people to be responsible just as much as I realize the ability of adults to be irresponsible. But, when it comes to legal liability for all things, from voting, to crime to recognized responsibility for your actions, the line in the sand has always been 18. Some provinces are 19, like Ontario.

In GP, we have traditionally allowed players at the age of 16 to play, and in some cases 14 and 15. But this is no longer, and hasn't been for a couple of years now. The kids that used to play are 18 or older now, and as such, I have implimented an 18+ policy for all future games I host. We have never had irresponsibility issues with the kids, it has been with the adults. But, this must be tempered with the fact that legally, I could have been in big crap if a 16 year old was a twit and got hurt, or worse hurt someone else.

Now, individual clubs have to decide what level of liability they want to assume, but in Alberta, only Calgary and Red Deer allow minors to play at all, and I can see that changing this year to make all milsims 18+ and minors only at indoor or skirmish games. Some clubs even have mentoring programs, sort of like a cadet thing, and they only allow selected players to play, not just anyone 16+.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 22 Nov 2007, 11:48 pm

doesn't feel that long ago, after all I'm only in my mid 30's. Frick I'm old.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyThu 10 Jan 2008, 9:03 pm

Well I am just saying this, when I started to play in the NIA i was 15........Razz But I am allmost 17 now, but I started befor the 16+ rule was inforced.
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyFri 11 Jan 2008, 11:17 am

shhhhhhhhh...


"They" are watching us...


Yep, and I am glad that you came along for the ride, just need to get you out to all the CQB games!
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PostSubject: Re: Under Underage players   Under Underage players EmptyFri 11 Jan 2008, 2:15 pm

when i host/run a game and have underage players wanting in,waivers are not legal because of the age so parent has to sign the waiver and fully understand what their child is getting into. plus the parent must be present on site to sign the waiver so i get a chance to meet them.i make it known to the parents that its not a drop off babysitting service and that the underage player is on a VERY short leash. one deliberate rule break like no hit calling or whatever,,BAM! your going home and wont be invited back. underage players are also restricted to full p/b masks only no exceptions.
with that being said i have to admit that some of the underage players are more mature than some of the adults. the underage players could be looked at as a case by case situation so we are not combining the potentaily good players with the bad. afterall if we do not educate the younger players or take them in to teach them the ins and outs of airsoft conduct who will?
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