Official Squads

=Daes= wrote:

Yuu wrote:

Yup, I got it pre-order arriving in April 2nd or the 6th. CA FN SCAR, I need good paint job cause I hate tan. I like Blue Grey matte colour on it like their first generation scar look like.

Word to that, sure tan represents the modern conflict zones but it looks plasticy. At least you are getting a wicked CA one.


like this color, or more blue?

-Doug

That's the colour I wanted, its perfect. It not totally plastic of CA one. The upper is CNC machined while lower is plastic.

Yuu wrote:

That's the colour I wanted, its perfect. It not totally plastic of CA one. The upper is CNC machined while lower is plastic.

The lower is plastic on the CA? Weird, you think it would be metal, or is it some fibre composite lower?

From Wiki:
Second generation SCAR prototypes no longer resemble the FNC at all, now sporting a polymer lower receiver that more resemble that of an AR-15 Rifle (compatible pistol grip included), with raised area around magazine release and bolt release buttons.

Heh, sweet, I guess that explains it.

-Doug

we should be...FENRIR Squad: gods of thunder......lol

Fenrir

Fenrir (or Fenris) is a gigantic and terrible monster in the shape of a wolf.

In Norse mythology, Fenrir or Fenrisulfr is a wolf, the son of Loki and the giantess Angrboða. Fenrir is bound by the gods, but is ultimately destined to grow too large for his bonds and devours Odin during the course of Ragnarök.


Yeah, we EAT the gods of thunder, lol...

vortexs wrote:

i dont here any thunder

I don't hear any either, I guess that means we succeeded. Go Fenrir!

What skills are you going to work on? If you want to create squads for sim purposes then base them off of something real life or proven. These are really random. I feal like this will be the blind leading the blind.

What specialities are you going to work on that will make up a whole team? I'm not seeing any real strengths that we have to build off of to start these squads/teams. They are split up by "I like to gun lots" and "sneaky sneaky" but who is actually knowledgeable enough to teach these skills and grow players?

Game play depends on the day, game type and mostly the situation. If we are nearing an ambush and all we really do well is head on ambush then it doesn't matter what kind of fire power we have we are going to loose. Basing a team that will usually play a certian way is strange. Any fire team has to be able to play multiple roles at the same time. Recce (sneaky sneaky) then when they bump become the aggresive sprayers. I think these squad/teams ,the way they are set-up, encourage poor playing.

Teams have to be fluid and able to fill different roles really fast. This isn't lord of the rings where the elves all fight one way all the time and the orcs always come bashing into everything. A merc team sounds very interesting and developing certian tactical play and load outs sounds good but these teams are so small that when they loose 2 guys their style has to change allot. They need to be able to intergrate with the other team fast. Having a basic training to work off of before entering a team will mean that different teams can mix, get new fire partners and be effective allot quicker. Different team members will use the same hand signals, understand roles in the same way and react the same way.

I just see these as giving ourselves more confidence that we know what we are doing- when we don't. Getting a basic bootcamp ciriculem for the NIA that gives everyone a basic set of skills and knowledge it good way to start. From there on teams will really help people understand what roles are need and usefull.

That bootcamp made me realize how little we know, how rarely we use intelligent tactics and how much we pretend to know or fool ourselves into thinking.

What I'm recomending
-create boot camp ciriculem with the help of Joe or Nic that includes what should make up a team, SOP's for recce/assualt/retreat, basic firearms safety, ETC ETC
-get trainers that want to teach specific skills to team members (recce, support, marksman)
-once out of bootcamp players choose a role that can be filled on multiple teams.
-Players choose a few people that they want to train with and grow in their skills with based on load out and somewhat on role. (US, canadian etc)
-when playing other clubs this means that our teams can mix and match as needed and still be working from the same foundational training but with different specific skills. Teams must be versitile.

I do apprehiate the ideas and efforts with teams and I am all for making them. Just making them in a way that will better us as a whole team. This topic is also very different from how and if the MIA would like to become a part ( a large one at that) of the NIA.

i think we should treat boot camp as a basic foundation for our training...after that..we should go into specific fields to receive further training from individual who have knowledge...sort of like a battle school...there..we can get to know our squad so everything can function like a well oiled machine

vortexs wrote:

sniper schools are fun to do same as recon school so much fun

and you have personally done all of this?

I have to agree with Blobby. It sounds good to have these specialized squads but it's not very effective when half the squad members don't show up for a specific game. It may be effective if you plan on attending a big milsim against other teams, but in NIA games it could cause game balance issues when splitting up teams. If we want to split the PG players into squads so you can play as squads similar to MIA, then we should split the squads so the teams can be evenly balanced.

I have no problem with training and playing with a specific player so you can form an effective biome. I just don't think we should be splitting off into groups of four or five when sometimes we can only get four or five players out to begin with.

Why does it change D ave to Blobby???

Blobby Blobby Blobby I was wondering who the heck blobby was

Bah, why do people take this things as blanket rules!!! For petes sake, these are suggestions for people who want to play together in LARGE Ops and Sim games! THESE RULES, AS STATED, ARE FOR LARGE GAMES!!! Arghhh, does anyone ever read what is written...

Blind leading the Blind?! That is what Airsoft is!! I don't see anyone here with ANY Milsim experience yet people are wanting to host one.

These squads (as I have already written down) are for the purposes of gettting players to play together and work together.

-Players choose a few people that they want to train with and grow in their skills with based on load out and somewhat on role. (US, canadian etc)

That is all this is! Something for players to do. Saying that if a few peple in your squad die you are helpless is stupid. Of course you prepare for that, that is what Binome training is! If your binome shrinks, you adjust...

Saying that teams have to adjust quickly, yeah, that is what squad training is BUT if you have the SAW, that is what you are going to be doing, squad or not! If you are the Medic for a game, I really do not think that you are going to stop being one because your marksman died.

This does not in anyway of form interupt anything coming in from MIA. This is something completely seperate from that. This is allowing players to come together, train together, and LEARN specialized roles! The only way to truely learn anything is through experience. An Airsoft SAW is different than a real steel SAW. A player needs to practice Airsoft too to become effective. These squads are for people who want to try working together and have something that binds them together. Squads can be members from any club, not just the local. When they get together for a game, they will be geared and gunned similar. Which in the case for most games, they will be on the same team anyways.

I brought this forward as something fun, different, and as something to motivate people to gear and gun up. If people like what the squad is aiming for, why stop them joining it, this doesn't effect games with other rules, it allows players to have a squad when the rules allow.

Kill this if you want, but I think you are taking it out of proportion. This is meant for fun, not to directly compete with anything else...

-Doug

Hey Guys, as I do not know exactly where I sit on this issue just keep one thing in mind as we write.

First, the internet lacks respect so be careful how you word and come across, it is easy for someone to miss interpret what is written and take offense.

Second, as I am all game for those who want to play together just remember to ask yourself if this is splitting up the club. I know personally there a few players whom I do not particually like playing with but is it worth creating a gap between them?

Doug, Chinese, Yuu, and everyone else, please I am not against you guys, heck I almost even signed up but guys seriously think about what we want and are trying to do.

What I see happening is once we start playing as smaller squads we will not want to play on different teams, we will separate ourselves from the rest of the group, those old and new who do not want to be on a particular team.

I do see the upside during a Milsim as you will be able to work as a team more efficiently and able to rely on your teammates skills.

I know that we have tried to do this in a way long ago... haha, we tried to stick with binomes but with all these noobs coming we lost our way and have become what we are now.

What I suggest is to pick someone and make up a binome. Find a partner and work from there. For those who were at Nick's boot camps back in the day, he said that platoons, and squads are exactly the same as a binome, well they function the same, they all have the same foundation. So work on getting someone to work with and we'll go from there.

Sorry if I upset you Doug. I do support the idea of squads for games where we plan on playing vs. other clubs. My issue is with game balancing for internal PG games. I don't think it would be much fun to have specialized squads who always play together kicking the crap out of our noobs at every game. I think it's a great idea to have specialized squads, I just don't see it being very useful when we rarely (once) play other teams.

I had a game vs. the FSJ guys last summer where they wanted to play as a squad so they could practice for the Kelowna milsim. They stuck Chris and I with a couple of their ill-equipped noobs and totally destroyed us for the first 3 or 4 games. It was no fun at all, and I was pretty much ready to just go home. If it had been my first experience with airsoft I would have been totally discouraged from ever playing again. Luckily they understood my frustration and we balanced out the teams after that.

twsmith wrote:

Sorry if I upset you Doug. I do support the idea of squads for games where we plan on playing vs. other clubs. My issue is with game balancing for internal PG games. I don't think it would be much fun to have specialized squads who always play together kicking the crap out of our noobs at every game. I think it's a great idea to have specialized squads, I just don't see it being very useful when we rarely (once) play other teams.

I had a game vs. the FSJ guys last summer where they wanted to play as a squad so they could practice for the Kelowna milsim. They stuck Chris and I with a couple of their ill-equipped noobs and totally destroyed us for the first 3 or 4 games. It was no fun at all, and I was pretty much ready to just go home. If it had been my first experience with airsoft I would have been totally discouraged from ever playing again. Luckily they understood my frustration and we balanced out the teams after that.

Meh, I am not upset with you Smith, I am just being cranky with everything (PMS) I really want to have fun again. Yeah, these squads are aimed at large games. I highly doubt that we will be doing much for most of the normal PG games. But for games that are 12+, it would be nice to try and make this work. If we have multiple squads, then it is nice to pit them against each other. FSJ only had one squad, we are aiming for multiple groups and only if the game is called on for squads.

Ie, a game day may have 3 games, blackhawk down, VIP, and base assault. It is decided that blackhawk will use ammo rules, VIP will use Real Hits, and Base Assualt will use squads.

Having a squad of 4 assault a base of 9 is like what we have done for many games. Swap it up, another squad tries the base. The 9 in the base are all one group, but can consist of more than one squad. They have just adapted towards the base roles now. Now, with squad rules, it allows to games with a theme. Say the Stalker Squad(4) and the Fenrir Squad(4) are playing that day with 9 other people (for say a total of 17). For most games, the squad rules will not be in place. For the base assualt game, squads are in place. Stalker and a group of players take the base. Fenrir and a group are assaulting. Fenrir is artillery, they take an hard approach on the base. People may join up with the squad for an all on one attack or the squad and players may decide to splt up and do a coordinated attack. Meanwhile at the base. Stalkers and the group decide that Stalker is going to go out for a diversion attack. Squads play a role and due to having more than one squad, the game remains well balanced. Just because a squad is playing, does not mean other non-squad members will not be fighting side by side.

Look at NIA's division of Member and Non-member, does that mean that they do not fight side by side, I certainly hope not. All I am looking for is to add some more fun and competition to the game. Give games some extra edge when you are defending a base and you know that Stalker Squad is out they and they are going to harrass you until the main force is there. Reputations and psychology makes for an interesting game

-Doug

There has to be a mechanism for people to go deeper if they want to. Boot camp and squads seem to be a way. But that is not to say that a squad is no longer NIA or that it is set apart from the rest. I see a few well built and practiced squads (and travelled) as being healthy for the over all body of NIA. They give lesser experienced players something to aspire to, and bring a whole world of experience to SHARE with the group. The key is to always remember that a squad serves NIA.
Consider NIA as one large unit and that all we are currently doing is practicing to go against another large unit at some future point --in a mil-sim or large OP.

It sounds like there have been some sour experiences with 'elite' groups dominating (FSJ?). Everybody has to be able to enjoy airsoft, so if squads form up they have an extra responsibility to know when to just be normal.

I think squads are a realy good idea. I highly dout we would use them except for when we do our atempts at a milsim or we play other groups. But when we play larger games it would be nice to have some groups that are realy good at a specialized job. Having said that I would like to ask to join the stalker squad.

I am for the idea of teams and squads...I don't think anyone was against. It's just the way these are set-up I don't dig that much.

I have reservations because these were made so fast and without the input and thoughts of the whole team. Seems like they were made out of frustration and not with allot of time and discussion. We are open to new ideas and taking the club in new directions but this squad thing just came across as imposed with how sudden they were implemented. I am up for discussing teams structure and purpose and making something happen.

Hortons Heros wrote:

I am for the idea of teams and squads...I don't think anyone was against. It's just the way these are set-up I don't dig that much.

I have reservations because these were made so fast and without the input and thoughts of the whole team. Seems like they were made out of frustration and not with allot of time and discussion. We are open to new ideas and taking the club in new directions but this squad thing just came across as imposed with how sudden they were implemented. I am up for discussing teams structure and purpose and making something happen.

Nah, these have been discussed for quite awhile at games and on the forum. This was not something that was made up over one evening. That is why it was able to be implemented so quickly was that it had already been designed and figured out. Mind you, there is plenty of room for discussion and change. Feel free to post away with ideas and suggestions.

Here are a few mention of squads in the forums.

=Daes= wrote:

Just a quick demo of what felt pens can do for you. The light green is easy to draw over with a permanent marker. Make sure you use a Xylene or the most toxic marker you can find to prevent leaching.




If you get lots of patches you can color code them to squads. Ie. black for urban squad, dark green for field squad, teal for hair-dressing squad, etc.

-Doug

https://pgairsoft.forumotion.com/Quatermaster-c3/Manuals-f7/Immediate-Action-Drills-Assault-t30.htm
https://pgairsoft.forumotion.com/The-Club-c1/Chinese-Parliament-f11/Game-Style-Type-t620.htm
https://pgairsoft.forumotion.com/sutra59-Tactical-movement.htm
https://pgairsoft.forumotion.com/Tactical-c2/NIA-Prince-George-Briefing-f4/March-23-NIGHT-MERGE-t630-60.htm

Here Doug let me help you... apology accepted... let's move on...

beach_boy wrote:

Here Doug let me help you... apology accepted... let's move on...

But move on to where, are Squads allowed or are they disbanded? I really don't want to loose out on having squads, so far most of the main members of the club, 7 of 12 club members, have stated interest is squads, 2 have said nay, and 3 have not posted yet. I think that is pretty much a good consensus of members supporting the idea of squads, whether they are used or not.

So can we continue with discussing the idea of squads or just kill it right now?

-Doug

who said nay?

What I meant is you can move on from not giving the club time or other things of that sort, move on to discussing... hmm well I think you just did... I'm all for it, as it pushes the club into a different direction, but what happens, say you want to practice as a squad for a game, what about those who do not wish to be part of one, or are new? Do they all go on the noob/meat shield team?

I'm not 100% against the squad idea. If we implemented it properly it could have organizational and training benefits.

If we train as fire and maneuver teams (paired up with someone we enjoy playing with) we could then take these FAM teams and combine them into fireteams designated alpha, bravo, etc... and they could be used to form squads depending on the game requirements. We could also assign players to different fire teams if their regular fire team or FAM team doesn't make it to a particular game.

As an example, Dave plans a game requiring 2 teams. Doug wants to create and lead Fenrir squad vs. Mackenzie squad in a particular game:

Doug becomes the Sergeant and leads Fenrir as an attacking squad
Zeus becomes a Sergeant and leads Mackenzie as a defending squad

Dave could then create fireteams alpha and bravo in Fenrir squad and a competing alpha and bravo in Mackenzie squad. Each fireteam could then be led by an experienced player who would be designated a corporal.

FAM teams or single players could choose to join those squads freely as long as they meet the gear and loadout requirements for that particular game (fairly flexible requirements in some games to allow for noobs and stricter requirements in some games to allow for more advanced milsims).

This could also help us train noobs as we could pair them up in fireteams with willing seasoned players who could help teach them the basics and we'd still have a seasoned player coordinating the entire squad.

Just some thoughts on unit sizes according to Wikipedia:

In the United States Army, a squad is composed of two fireteams of four or five soldiers each. In the United States Marine Corps, a squad is typically composed of three fireteams of four Marines and a squad leader who is a junior non-commissioned officer.

II battalion, U.S. Cavalry squadron or Commonwealth regiment 300–1000, 2–6 companies, batteries, U.S. Cavalry troops, or Commonwealth squadrons lieutenant colonel

I company, artillery battery, U.S. Cavalry troop or Commonwealth squadron 70–250 2–8 platoons or Commonwealth troops chief warrant officer 2-4 and captain or major

••• platoon or Commonwealth troop 25–60, 2+ squads, sections, or vehicles warrant officer and first or second lieutenant

•• section or patrol 8–12, 2+ fireteams corporal to staff sergeant

• squad or crew 8–12, 2+ fireteams corporal to staff sergeant

Ø fireteam 4–5 n/a lance corporal to sergeant

Ø fire and maneuver team 2 n/a any

beach_boy wrote:

Do they all go on the noob/meat shield team?

lol, FSJ situation. Nah, squads are only used for specific games. These games usually are going to be Sim or Ops, both which require either bootcamp or training. There will very few people who are unskilled that are going to be part of a game that involves squads.

Now, meatshield squad is a great idea. But seriously, if someone does not want to join a squad, there will most likely be enough people who are not in a squad to form their own squad. Like has been stated before, squads are for LARGE games.

The goal of squads is to allow specialized training and shared gamestyle with a group of people. Most likely the only time that squads will be seen in games are on roadtrips, sim games, or large ops with the squads written in the story. Squads are a game option (sounding like a broken record here), they allow game organizes to quicky make op games and have squads that will function a certain way. This means that they can write op games and have squads carry out certain functions that other make-shift squads will not be capable of. Stalkers are training towards being great harnessers, they will be better versed in vectors and flank gaming then an improv. squad. This means that the improv squads can capitalize upon Stalkers to cover their flank and deep strike for them becuase the improve squad may not be well enough trained.

There should never be a meatshield team if the game organizer knows what they are doing, teams should always be split evenly, especially if there are 2 or more squads, you will always be pitting them against each other anyways.

-Doug

twsmith wrote:

I'm not 100% against the squad idea. If we implemented it properly it could have organizational and training benefits.

If we train as fire and maneuver teams (paired up with someone we enjoy playing with) we could then take these FAM teams and combine them into fireteams designated alpha, bravo, etc... and they could be used to form squads depending on the game requirements. We could also assign players to different fire teams if their regular fire team or FAM team doesn't make it to a particular game.

As an example, Dave plans a game requiring 2 teams. Doug wants to create and lead Fenrir squad vs. Mackenzie squad in a particular game:

Doug becomes the Sergeant and leads Fenrir as an attacking squad
Zeus becomes a Sergeant and leads Mackenzie as a defending squad

Dave could then create fireteams alpha and bravo in Fenrir squad and a competing alpha and bravo in Mackenzie squad. Each fireteam could then be led by an experienced player who would be designated a corporal.

FM teams or single players could choose to join those squads freely as long as they meet the gear and loadout requirements for that particular game (fairly flexible requirements in some games to allow for noobs and stricter requirements in some games to allow for more advanced milsims).

This could also help us train noobs as we could pair them up in fireteams with willing seasoned players who could help teach them the basics and we'd still have a seasoned player coordinating the entire squad.

Just some thoughts on unit sizes according to Wikipedia:

In the United States Army, a squad is composed of two fireteams of four or five soldiers each. In the United States Marine Corps, a squad is typically composed of three fireteams of four Marines and a squad leader who is a junior non-commissioned officer.

II battalion, U.S. Cavalry squadron or Commonwealth regiment 300–1000, 2–6 companies, batteries, U.S. Cavalry troops, or Commonwealth squadrons lieutenant colonel

I company, artillery battery, U.S. Cavalry troop or Commonwealth squadron 70–250 2–8 platoons or Commonwealth troops chief warrant officer 2-4 and captain or major

••• platoon or Commonwealth troop 25–60, 2+ squads, sections, or vehicles warrant officer and first or second lieutenant

•• section or patrol 8–12, 2+ fireteams corporal to staff sergeant

• squad or crew 8–12, 2+ fireteams corporal to staff sergeant

Ø fireteam 4–5 n/a lance corporal to sergeant

Ø fire and maneuver team 2 n/a any

Bang on Smith, squads are used to accent play. And as been stated, squads are used for LARGE games,

FM teams or single players could choose to join those squads freely as long as they meet the gear and loadout requirements for that particular game (fairly flexible requirements in some games to allow for noobs and stricter requirements in some games to allow for more advanced milsims).


Squads are aimed at large events, there will be plenty of people to balance the game, especially if the teams are designed well, ie pitting squads against each other.

This will hopefully eliminate those damn BDU vs. non-BDU games where the n00bs always get picked on. There will be squads that are non-standard BDU, contractor look, that will gladly be the "terrorist" side. I think that if the games are well-organized with squads, the large games will end up being very well balanced with skilled players on both sides gunning for each other.

-Doug