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PostSubject: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyMon 05 Mar 2007, 8:01 pm

I was checking out the MAA (manitoba airsoft) and they class their games in to 4 different groupings with different rules for each.

Maybe not as intense as their rules but to classify games so people understand what kind of game they are coming to. Short unorganized skirmishes or 1 6hour well planned game.

Some of my thoughts are
-The game type would be posted beside the date in the title and would be elaborated in the briefing section.
-boot camp and membership required for some games

THOUGHTS?

POSTED BY Gryphon on the MAA boards


Game Classifications
Beginning this year, all established teams are expected to host two ops or events per season. We are working on a calendar to arrange scheduling of games and the goal is to have a scrim at least every second week, with more organized games in between. Large ops and events will have priority scheduling over smaller games.

Reference is made below to discounts and equipment requisitions. MAA members will receive a discounted rate on the cost of attending MAA-sanctioned games that have a fee. The majority of the fee will go to the game organizer while a small portion will go to the MAA treasury to help fund equipment and other expenses. Once the MAA obtains equipment such as props and specialized weaponry (ie. claymore mines, etc.) they may be signed out by persons wishing to use them in a game. The amount of equipment that can be requisitioned will be determined by the extravagance of the game; small scrims do not qualify for a dozen claymores and a pile of ammo cans, for instance.

Below are the four MAA game classifications. Please use these guidelines during your planning stages to classify the type of game you will be hosting.


MAA Game Classifications


MAA games are classified under one of four subtypes – Scrimmage Games, Miniature Operations, Operations, and Events.


1. Scrimmage Games (Scrims)

A scrimmage game, or “scrim,” is an unstructured game without specific predefined objectives, number of players, background storyline, or scheduled running time. Requirements:
• Shall not have an official name;
• Do not count towards a team’s yearly game count;
• Are applicable to member discounts;
• Are not applicable to equipment requisitions except a chronograph;
• May be scheduled on any open day without advance notice;
• Do count towards a player’s attendance record;
• Do not qualify for an online forum tag.


2. Miniature Operations (Mini-Ops)

A miniature operation, or “mini-op,” is a semi-structured game that has predefined objectives, but no requisite number of players, does not require a background storyline, and has no scheduled running time. Requirements:
• May optionally have an official name but that does not begin with Operation;
• Do not count towards a team’s yearly game count;
• Are applicable to member discounts;
• Are applicable to limited equipment requisitions;
• May be scheduled on any open day without advance notice;
• Do count towards a player’s attendance record;
• Do not qualify for an online forum tag.


3. Operations (Ops)

An operation, or “op,” is a structured game with predefined objectives, an expected player count with pre-assigned teams, involves a background storyline, and is scheduled for a minimum running time of four hours. Ops receive priority scheduling over scrims and mini-ops. Requirements:
• Shall have an official name beginning with Operation, or other suitable title;
• Do count towards a team’s yearly game count;
• Are applicable to member discounts;
• Are applicable to all equipment requisitions;
• Shall be scheduled and announced a minimum of thirty days in advance;
• Do count towards a player’s attendance record;
• Do qualify for an online forum tag.


4. Events

An event is a highly structured game that involves significant predefined objectives, an expected player count of at least fifty persons on pre-assigned teams, involves an established background storyline, is preceded with significant preparatory field work, and is scheduled for a minimum running time of eight hours. Events receive priority scheduling over all other game types. Requirements:
• Shall have an official name beginning with Operation, or other suitable title;
• Do count towards a team’s yearly game count;
• Are not applicable to member discounts;
• Are applicable to all equipment requisitions;
• Shall be scheduled and announced a minimum of ninety days in advance;
• Do count towards a player’s attendance record;
• Do qualify for an online forum tag;
• Must be accompanied by an advance signup and fee payment system to help ensure anticipated turnout.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyMon 05 Mar 2007, 9:32 pm

Heh heh, notice that they are using "teams" to host. That means that maybe that squad subdivision would not be a bad idea. Have MIA as a team ot two, and perhaps 2 teams out of NIA, at least until we get more people.

The problem with this setup is that we require more people for it to function well. Ops games with 6 people, well, aren't really ops games.

Mind you, when Nia and Mia are combined, events are totally feasible. I think now that we have the arse-kicking MIA joined in, maybe something like this would work. MIA can put together events that we visit and vise-versa.

ESPECIALLY now that we have Nic's field as a option, ops and events are something that would function well (it would be great to dig some bunkers and other HARD targets).


Like MAA, I would really like to see the development of local "teams". Groups that play and develope together but host as teams. This would take some of the strain of one person being the host 24/7.

I for one would love to see the development of a teams section on this board, for like minded people who enjoy different styles of gear and play, to form teams and host events. This means that the 2 games a month can be maintained and more effort could be spent developing the game play. With something like this, one team can go to work on the field one weekend, host the event next weekend, and then the teams swap.

The logistics of this is still sketchy if finances are involved so general control over both teams would still be maintained by NIA, but as for game/event development, that could be divided.

So who is up for starting some teams?

-Doug (Team Dirty Cluckers) Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyTue 06 Mar 2007, 1:15 pm

sounds good to me. I am trying to split us into two squads with about even arsonal. ie:heavy gunners, sniper/DM. That type of thing. we have had more intrest in some of our local guys and two more have ordered guns in so our team is growing YAH!!!!
I will run this past the guys and see if we can make somthing like this work.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyTue 06 Mar 2007, 1:58 pm

Good stuff! Out of question, who did they order from, and which guns? You know, with all the stuff happening, everyone is saying it is impossible to get guns. Or are they get ASC used?

Also, don't worry about splitting up teams evenly. I kind of like the idea of having different takes for each team, ie recon team and an assault team.

But alas, this is much talk considering the position that I am in right now. I would love to see more dedicated squads but that is numbers permitting.


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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyTue 06 Mar 2007, 2:28 pm

We have had the teams disscussion before,

what I am looking for is thoughts on how we can class games so players attending know what they are in for.

IDEAS
-Skirmish Games
game leader-whoever attends
games-spur of the moment short games
game length-30mins to 1hour
members only-no
ammo limits-none
other info-

Training Games
game leader-recognized trainer
games-specific games to work on specific skills and group tactics
game length-30 mins to 3 hours
members only-depending
ammo limits-depending
other info-

Operations
game leader-SPECIFIC PERSON-example Daes and Chinese
games-1 or 2 games that have specific objectives and run times
game length-2-6 hours
members only-yes
ammo limits-yes
other info-team will be split up by camo type-RADIOS required

Simulation
game leader-Specific Person for each team
games-1 long game-objective based
games length-minimum 6 hour game with specific start and end times
members only-yes-boot camp also required
ammo limits-yes
other info-teams by camo, radios required
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyTue 06 Mar 2007, 2:47 pm

Yeah, those are great, that is why I got off on the teams tangent, sorry 'bout that. I really strongly agree with ammo limits on the "proper" games. Even as far as to say, low or mid-caps only. What you can carry on the field, is what you are stuck with for that game. Yeah, that awards people with too many mags, but then that is what teams are all about. Make a team that can accept all similar mags, ie. armilite and g36magwells, thus if needed, mags can be labelled and shared.

We really need developed games, stories written, plot devices, and props. I really think that having that dedicated field of Nic's will allows us to do that. It is hard to have MilSim if there are no foxholes, dugouts, and bunkers. We will not have to worry (as much) about people coming along and trashing our stuff we setup. Investing is the field is now totally possible and if materials and goods are brought, field fees could/should be waved. Also on that note, though we are playing on a "free" field, Nic should be given restitution for his land. Be that getting legal documents/waivers, or friendly tax-free "donations".

I would gladly pay $10 a game out there, or bring in $40 of materials. For milsim, I would pay over $40 if it meant food and a developed gaming experience. Also, car pooling would be in great need.

I think that developing the field is our number one priority right now. With an established playing area, then organization of game types and teams will follow (as with more players).

Also, when looking at the field, having two set-up zones would be great, allowing a split between opposing teams, as opposed to Busters with only one meeting area.

These game classes are great and will allow for attendence numbers to increase. People will drive in greater distances if the classification is for Ops or Milsim. This means that will will have to closely examine what it means to be a "member" though if out-of-towners are coming. I guess a simple "member" requirement would have to be followed if attending, gear and gun. Also, a bootcamp at the beginning of every MilSim and op, manditory requirement "everyone, even if been to before", would make that bootcamp requirement easier for out-of-towners. If you come to a developed game, you MUST do bootcamp, conveniently provided at the beginning of the game. This means that new-peoples will be exposed, and established players will be refreshed regularly.

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyTue 06 Mar 2007, 6:40 pm

I've been reading up on upcoming milsims and I do not think that radios should be a requirement. For the up coming on in Manitoba they are limiting radios to 1 per team of 10... radios are nice and an easy way to communicate, but aren't necessary. If we're role playing not all terrorist (sorry for the stereotypes) don't always carry radios... just my idea
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyTue 06 Mar 2007, 7:02 pm

Sez u homes:

Game Style/Type Wtf_ghetto_blaster_edition

My radio would blow y'all away Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyTue 06 Mar 2007, 7:38 pm

Oh and just another thing I have noted about other boot camp requirements. Both the SSM and PDW teams out here have Milsims, or attend others, and their requirement for their Milsims are that you have to attend a bootcamp and if for some odd reason you can't make one, then a crash course from your Club's president is good... or military advisor. It just keeps the noobies off the field and doing something stupid/rookie (ie. Blindfire) and of course we all do something stupid from time to time...

Anyways...

I would really like to say that before we try pulling our own Milsim or event, that we should, as a team go to another Milsim else where to gain experience and see what it is like to be at and how to run a proper milsim.

Dang I wish I were here for 2 weeks longer, MAA is putting a rather large Milsim...
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyTue 06 Mar 2007, 9:25 pm

beach_boy wrote:

I would really like to say that before we try pulling our own Milsim or event, that we should, as a team go to another Milsim else where to gain experience and see what it is like to be at and how to run a proper milsim.

Heh heh, come on people, lets get back on that roadtrip band-wagon! Schedules permitting of course Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 12:17 am

There will be at least one large sim in each Edmonton, Calgary and Red Deer. You can expect the Red Deer or Calgary events to have between 50 to 100 experienced players. If you guys get the opportunity to attend either a day 12 hour or a night 12 hour game, you should do that prior to trying a game like KS 3.

Even my usually limitless supplies of adrenaline petered out after 16 hours of hard combat and walking the bush. But at least I got 4 hours of sleep before the non-stop drive home.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 12:29 am

I was using the radios as an example but I will make sure that they don't enter into the requirments. Looking for more specifics on these game requirments...what do you like or what doesn't fit?

If you really want to get to a milsim then organize a trip. I am not the one to do this right now becuase of money and time. Doug has done it before when he went to Ft st james. I am willing to help but I need someone else to do the work to find the nearest/next milsim, get rides, place to stay, food, etc etc.

Sure it would be nice to catch a milsom before we try but I just want to start somewhere. We have access to people with extensive military experience...better than milsim they are just mil. We have people who can help put on a great event.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 1:05 am

Well, Ft. St. John was hardly a milsim but they certainly had their act together.

I agree Dave, we do have some excellent resources in town available to us. I think that with the combination of Nic's excellent field, his and his buddies military experiences, and a few of the local players Airsoft experience, we have what it takes. Gunman and Beach have played lots at other fields and can bring a balance into play also. MIA is very dedicated and can put up an excellent fight.

On that note, if ANYONE is interested in attending an Alberta Milsim or Kelowna, I have access to family in Dawson Creek (hour out of Grande Prairie, a few more to Edmonton), family in Red Deer (tent in their backyard), and other contacts if need be. That being said, roadtrips are always cheaper if more than one person goes on it. A $300 dollar fuel bill is nice to split 4 or 5 ways.

So, lets hold a Northern MilSim this spring or fall (preferably fall, giving time to develop the field, make contacts and arrangements, legal slop), and show what we are capable of. (And probably by fall a few more players will have out-of-town experience).

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 1:22 am

I'm game for a road trip this spring/summer there Doug, I have tons of contacts in Edmonton and Alberta. Guess I should start looking around and seeing who is hosting Milsims.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 1:58 am

That would be appreciated Beach, we will have to work out a schedule some time.

On another note, I have noticed that a lot more competitive Airsoft skill games are springing up, as in target shooting, recognition of targets, speed trials, concealment skills, etc.

I find these to be fun on occassion, any chance of incorporating these into the Game Styles? Or would they fall under skills training games?

I would love to see a skills day, one day. Have a group of members go out and complete a basic skills course. See how well you do with 30 shots and targets (time vs. hits, and the variences of that game), CQB target recog (terrorist or hostage), and have people do belly up from a distance (judges award distance and time vs. detection). And have the fun stuff like cut the box in half, best gear, best gun awards. It would be reasonably easy to set up and would be a great BBQ event. Kind of a meat and greet. Any takers?

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 3:48 am

Sounds like a good idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 6:21 pm

Looking for thoughts on these still.
-Skirmish Games
game leader-whoever attends
games-spur of the moment short games
game length-30mins to 1hour
members only-no
ammo limits-none
other info-

Training Games
game leader-recognized trainer
games-specific games to work on specific skills and group tactics
game length-30 mins to 3 hours
members only-depending
ammo limits-depending
other info-

Operations
game leader-SPECIFIC PERSON-example Daes and Chinese
games-1 or 2 games that have specific objectives and run times
game length-2-6 hours
members only-yes
ammo limits-yes
other info-team will be split up by camo type-RADIOS required

Simulation
game leader-Specific Person for each team
games-1 long game-objective based
games length-minimum 6 hour game with specific start and end times
members only-yes-boot camp also required
ammo limits-yes
other info-teams by camo, radios required
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 8:29 pm

In Skirmish Games, having a time limit seems silly because nobody ever times. Same as having no ammo limit. Skirmish games are run and gun, zombies, pilot down, etc. There may be rules to the game, there may not be. Sometimes one runs all afternoon. Skirmishes as a word may not be appropriate because a MilSim's combat composses of many small skirmishes, that eventually builds into a full out ending.

This list is reminiscent of our previous games in that we have had, games days, open days, training days.

I vote for changing Skirmish Games into Open Games. Something that is open to everyone and is most likely to have minimal structure and lower numbers. Training, missions, and other events will occur but they are not organized to the new levels that we are hoping to achieve.

Next is Ammo Limits for Ops and Sim. What exactly does ammo limits entail? Low Caps, 1000 round per game, how is this enforced?

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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 8:56 pm

for ammo limit...i think it should be as many mags as you can carry...no bb bags allowed. Cuz in the military, no body carries around zip-lock bag full of ammo into combat...so bb bags should be restricted. I have no problem with pple carrying additional mags cuz that's more realistic than a bag full of bbs
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 9:06 pm

chinese_gunman wrote:
Cuz in the military, no body carries around zip-lock bag full of ammo into combat...

Are you sure about that Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 9:16 pm

Who puts the bullets in the mags in the army?

I thought we had existing ammo limits but I can't find them. We have used the rules
-low and mids under 100 full auto
-high cap semi only

Options can also be
-as many lows as you want or max 1000BBs on your person
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 9:45 pm

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=89559

Great talk about carrying extra ammo. Also, carrying SAW and 40mm ammo is rarely done by one person. If you have to carry hundreds of rounds of ammo, you are not going to carry it all in mags, the weight would get insane.

For games that are running 6+ hours. I could see having an armory at the peoples bases so they can refuel. But yeah, since BB's are so light, I agree Gunman, no extra BB's while in field. In-field refueling is a bit cheap.

For most games, I have no prob with high-caps, they don't offer that much of an advantage, the time to wind equals out mag changes usually (at least more me, sans boxmag). Mind you, for Sim and OP games, I would really like to see a move towards ammo conservation, as mentioned on ASC and many forums, real count <30 is not realistic in airsoft due to the poor accuracy compared to real steel, ie why marui make 68rnd mags. If we can get everyone playing with non-wind mags, non-rattling garbage, then our realism will increase and people will find that Mag mag's with 100 rnds per mag are more than enough.

When I play a round with my G36 and its nasty rof, I use 3 mid caps. That usually last me for a whole game. I rarely pop into full-auto because I don't want to waste ammo. I am being budget minded but in the end, it makes for a more interesting game.

I know some people love their hi-caps but I would really like to see a trend away from them. If not, I guess we can get into the arms race of box-mags.

Speaking of which, what are the rules regarding box-mags?

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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 11:02 pm

My only issue with ammo limits is that some guns don't have midcaps available. I have yet to find a midcap for my P90 and in order for me to play effectively I'd need a whack of locaps, which are incredibly bulky to carry around. Not that it's really an issue for me because I'll likely be using my C15 once Dustin's finished fixing it. But some people don't have the option of switching to a different gun. Smile

Oh, there's also the issue that a P90 is supposed to hold more shells than an M4, 50 vs 30 I believe? So if an M4 midcap can hold 100-120, would a P90 hicap really be that unrealistic?

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that P90 bullets are designed to defeat body armor, so would armor be disallowed if I shot someone with my P90? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 11:19 pm

twsmith wrote:


Oh, I almost forgot to mention that P90 bullets are designed to defeat body armor

lol...believe it or not... so does an mp7
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type EmptyWed 07 Mar 2007, 11:23 pm

True enough. I guess if those guns could have AP rounds, they all could. Smile
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