Game Style/Type

probably special forces...but they're a bunch of cowboys who practically do whatever they want in terms of gear

so they are being fazed out...that's wat we should do for the military team

Well, personally I'm going for a kit similar to this:



It would be kind of strange seeing something like that on the terrorist team...

chinese_gunman wrote:

probably special forces...but they're a bunch of cowboys who practically do whatever they want in terms of gear

so they are being fazed out...that's wat we should do for the military team

I prefer to be special forces and do whatever I want in terms of gear.

One of the reasons I chose to go with an OD weesatch was because I could use it with different types of camo so I wouldn't need different gear to go with each uniform.

I can see if we try to standardize camo patterns in order to differentiate teams, but it seems silly to say that we can't wear certain camo because it's not current issue. If you want to go with current issue gear, then that's perfectly fine, but some people can't afford to buy the latest gear. Surplus gear is much more reasonably priced and in many cases has much better durability than some of the knockoff cadpat uniforms etc... Some of us don't have connections to get current issue gear.

chinese_gunman wrote:

sorry...i meant western armies. I don't know of anyone who wanted to pretend to be an Iraqi national guard...but whatever floats ur boat

i also believe hezbollah wears woodlands... as i recall, so does Osama Bin Laden

Real effective in Afghanistan.
Although we still haven't found him... maybe it's working.

That picture is obviously a fake...if he was a real SF operator, wouldn't he at least have a NVG mount on his mich...and furthermore, the US flag is worn on the right shoulder, not the left

it would be strange seeing something like that on the terrorist team... that's why they wear non-matching gear

here is a picture of the 10th sf group in Iraq

twsmith wrote:

chinese_gunman wrote:

sorry...i meant western armies. I don't know of anyone who wanted to pretend to be an Iraqi national guard...but whatever floats ur boat

i also believe hezbollah wears woodlands... as i recall, so does Osama Bin Laden

Real effective in Afghanistan.
Although we still haven't found him... maybe it's working.

I think its his beard...maybe that's why we can't find dave sometimes

twsmith wrote:

[
I can see if we try to standardize camo patterns in order to differentiate teams, but it seems silly to say that we can't wear certain camo because it's not current issue. If you want to go with current issue gear, then that's perfectly fine, but some people can't afford to buy the latest gear. Surplus gear is much more reasonably priced and in many cases has much better durability than some of the knockoff cadpat uniforms etc... Some of us don't have connections to get current issue gear.

I sternly believe that if you have $400 to through around for an aeg, then you should also have money to buy a uniform, at least. remember that this restriction was only implied for milsims. It would add to the realism of it

twsmith wrote:

chinese_gunman wrote:

=Daes= wrote:

I really doubt that any Milsim that we are doing is going to be historical.

Maybe we should start

If we are going historical, most of us have the wrong guns/gear for anything prior to the gulf war.

I think what Geoff was trying to get across is maybe we should start paying more attention and being realistic...? (does not apply to ammo... well at least I don't think so)

chinese_gunman wrote:

That picture is obviously a fake...if he was a real SF operator, wouldn't he at least have a NVG mount on his mich...and furthermore, the US flag is worn on the right shoulder, not the left

it would be strange seeing something like that on the terrorist team... that's why they wear non-matching gear

here is a picture of the 10th sf group in Iraq

I don't know if those blue shirts are going to work as well in the bush as they do in the desert.

A couple of them seem to be wearing 3 color desert as well as the ACU.

the one on the bottom left seems to be wearing some sort of camo paint

beach_boy wrote:

I think what Geoff was trying to get across is maybe we should start paying more attention and being realistic...? (does not apply to ammo... well at least I don't think so)

YES!

Bless the Germans for not changing their camo in a almost 20 years...woot.



I can understand the gear requirements for milsim Chinese. Would we really want to go with most recent? Or would we say in use in the last 3 years or something like that. What about certain vests and gear like SAAV's and LBV's that fit the gear but aren't as modern as the ciras or weesatch?

EDIT-write up an example like I have for what you would put for milsim rules for gear

i think if the vest matches..then go for it... just nothing ridiculous

edit - cadpat uniform... with flectarn vest...this wouldn't happen in real life so i don't see why we should do that...it just looks weird

example time:
Frontenac cadpat BDU
PASGT cadpat cover
Cadpat SAAV
AUG

Thoughts?

WHAT WOULD YOU ADD?

IDEAS
-Skirmish Games
game leader-whoever attends
games-spur of the moment short games
game length-30mins to 1hour
members only-no
ammo limits-none
other info-

Training Games
game leader-recognized trainer
games-specific games to work on specific skills and group tactics
game length-30 mins to 3 hours
members only-depending
ammo limits-depending
other info-

Operations
game leader-SPECIFIC PERSON-example Daes and Chinese
games-1 or 2 games that have specific objectives and run times
game length-2-6 hours
members only-yes
ammo limits-yes
other info-team will be split up by camo type-RADIOS required

Simulation
game leader-Specific Person for each team
games-1 long game-objective based
games length-minimum 6 hour game with specific start and end times
members only-yes-boot camp also required
ammo limits-yes
other info-teams by camo, radios required

Hortons Heros wrote:

Bless the Germans for not changing their camo in a almost 20 years...woot.



I can understand the gear requirements for milsim Chinese. Would we really want to go with most recent? Or would we say in use in the last 3 years or something like that. What about certain vests and gear like SAAV's and LBV's that fit the gear but aren't as modern as the ciras or weesatch?

EDIT-write up an example like I have for what you would put for milsim rules for gear

That's what I'm saying, why does it matter if it's not current issue? It's not like they're dressing up in Red like a British soldier from the Napoleanic wars.

Is it realistic to have Cadpat vs. Marpat? When are we ever going to attack the Americans or vice versa? It may reflect current military practice operations, but in real life it's going to be Cadpat or Marpat vs. whatever camo the insurgents can find. If you only want to simulate Friendly force on force operations, then that's fine but don't expect me to buy a full set of cadpat or marpat just so I can meet the requirement of one game (except maybe Keystone strike) . And why should the insurgent team be restricted to street clothes, let's let them use woodland or tiger stripe or whatever so they have a chance. I'm all for realism but we have to make some allowance for players on a budget or the non-hardcore players. We don't exactly have a massive list of players showing up at our games, so why make it more difficult. If FSJ shows up for a milsim with their OD BDU's are we going to turn them away or if MIA shows up in tigerstripe again? I realize that Russia uses a variation of tigerstripe, but the common commercially available stuff is not Russian issue and therefore, not "current issue".

I believe we've had this conversation before when we attempted to standardize BDU's for roadtrips and we came to the conclusion that forcing people to wear a certain type of camouflage was a bad idea.

beach_boy wrote:

I think what Geoff was trying to get across is maybe we should start paying more attention and being realistic...? (does not apply to ammo... well at least I don't think so)

Yeah, and what I'm trying to get across is that wearing woodland in a milsim isn't unrealistic.

Edit: And what smith said. If things are too strict, it's just not fun any more.

Hortons Heros wrote:

example time:
Frontenac cadpat BDU
PASGT cadpat cover
Cadpat SAAV
AUG

Thoughts?

DPM BDU with DPM helmet or Boonie (all 95 pattern I believe)
OD Weesatch possibly with black drop leg P90 mag holder
Glock 18, or 5.1K hicapa
C-15, P90, G36 or M700 takedown

I've invested several thousand dollars already, why should I have to go buy some Cadpat gear or some current issue DPM?

Wow, I sign back on and wham, a ton of convo.

Yeah, gear is good, guns are good. This is the big debate of airsoft, is airsoft milsim, or is milsim airsoft. Looking at canadian milsim photos, gear seems to be largely ignored with everyone going for the "contractor" look. US milsim, now that is a different story due to the more readily available real kit.

For the last 3 months I have been searching for replacement gear to my woodland set-up. I have not been impressed with any of the new patterns due to no one digital pattern really being properly adopted (sans Canada).

Personally, I think woodland looks great, has tons of available gear, and is still viable if you are going for the special forces, contractor, or re-con look. I personally do not want to look like a grunt. The one new pattern, highland, that interests me is not even in production...



-Doug

Heh heh, it is fun to see the different views of Airsoft here. I am more gun oriented while Gunman is more gear. Simple differences which I am sure we will hit some middle ground on through further discussion.

-Doug

[quote]
I prefer to be special forces and do whatever I want in terms of gear.
One of the reasons I chose to go with an OD weesatch was because I could use it with different types of camo so I wouldn't need different gear to go with each uniform.

I have to agree with Smith on this. I had enough to cover the cost of weapons, ammo, and the last tidbits of my black gear, but I'm short when it comes to getting a new uniform.

funny how that has allot of the same pattern as Flectarn...

=Daes= wrote:

For the last 3 months I have been searching for replacement gear to my woodland set-up. I have not been impressed with any of the new patterns due to no one digital pattern really being properly adopted (sans Canada).
-Doug

Yep, Canada adopts Cadpat then sends troops to Afghanistan with it. There's some foresight!

Here's what I gather, gear/gun should be the same as ammo limits. Gear/gun should depend on the milsim. Ie. Again... Vietnam I'm pretty sure if we come busting out with a G36 and cadpat that's a little unrealistic.

Just like ammo, guns and gear should be mission specific. Many milsims out there require each team to be matching or atleast color matching at best. They may go as far as only certain guns can be on certain teams. I was reading up on either JOC or EAR forums that they are holding a milsim along these properties (gear & gun match team)

Yes I might be stating the obvious but no one else did...