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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 2:01 pm

This is my own personal thing, but I am not going to buy or get issue or army style boots...
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 2:03 pm

OK breaks over...back to work.

I'm not totally sold on those ammo rules. I think that highs should not be allowed and replaced with box mags. In theory you can throw a box mag on any gun in real life so why not the airsoft? Just limit them to 1000BBs. Give me some feed back on those updated rules.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 2:03 pm

sorry the boots were just supposed to be boots...I'll fix that.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 2:13 pm

Question: What would happen if we have more than 2 teams? Seems like a lot of milsims have 3 teams (or more) and we would run into a problem.

I think on the rules we really need to stress that it is specific to the milsim.

So the rule might say something like:

Gear and BDU requirements are mission specific. Teams may require certain patterns and gear (ie. Cadpat, Marpat... etc)
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 2:19 pm

how does that fit?
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 2:23 pm

beach_boy wrote:
Question: What would happen if we have more than 2 teams? Seems like a lot of milsims have 3 teams (or more) and we would run into a problem.

I think on the rules we really need to stress that it is specific to the milsim.

So the rule might say something like:

Gear and BDU requirements are mission specific. Teams may require certain patterns and gear (ie. Cadpat, Marpat... etc)

Yeah, that is what I am trying to get at. Have gear rules mission specific, not a blanket. You might have a Commonwealth Vs. Yanks game. That means DPM and Cadpat vs. Marpat, ACU and Woods. Or an Iraq game with three teams. Contractors, Army, and Terrorists.

Horton wrote:

I'm not totally sold on those ammo rules. I think that highs should not be allowed and replaced with box mags. In theory you can throw a box mag on any gun in real life so why not the airsoft? Just limit them to 1000BBs. Give me some feed back on those updated rules.

I thought that we agreed that hi-caps were still allowed? If not, sweet, replace them with box mags, that makes for a better realism anyways Smile

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 2:51 pm

Horton, I really like the new list, it is very straight forward. (Waldo gear might even work, he really is hard to find sometimes).

My last and only correction is on Simulation, why digital vs. non-digital? The posibility of more than 2 teams, and story plot of country vs. country, or like the example of Iraq Sim with US Army (MarPat desert), defence contractors (Blackwater, mix & match), and terrorists (rags, old gear) kind of make gear req for Sim a bit more variable.

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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 3:03 pm

fixed the simulation to a more blanket statement.

EDIT- I made these things more so we can post it, change a few criteria depending on the game...like this

Both are sims but they have different gear rules, time limits and game play. Just use these as an overview that reference specific rules we have laid out.

Simulation
GAME LEADER-Frag team 1-Daes team 2
GAME PLAY-Large area recon
GAME LENGTH-8 hours
GEAR-gear rules apply
AMMO LIMITS-points system-NO HIGH CAPS
TEAMS-American VS terrorist (mixed gear no street clothes)
OTHER INFO-

OR
Simulation
GAME LEADER-Team 1 Chinese-Team 2 Jackboot
GAME PLAY-medium area defend assualt
GAME LENGTH-24 hr game
GEAR-gear rules apply
AMMO LIMITS-points system-HIGH CAPS ALLOWED
TEAMS-USA VS THE QUEEn
OTHER INFO-
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 3:11 pm

Those are excellent Dave, perfect. I like this list, good to have something concrete down Smile

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 3:19 pm

just wait until Chinese, Smith and the rest of the crew check them out before you say concrete...this thread grew 4 pages within a couple hours last night.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 3:23 pm

i like the ammo limits but your gun and gear rules just alienated our whole team. so this will need to be set in stone so we can figure out what to do. we all have tiger stripe but about half is asian stripe,we have 1 tider vest, and four cadpat, and our guns are all over the place,ie: mp5, m16, m4, ak, m60. these are all expensive changes for us to all make just to match? I don't know what would work but anything that tells my guys that in total about 500$ in vests can't be used or i can't use my m16 with tiger stripe or the mp5's is not going to go over well.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 4:04 pm

ZEUS wrote:
i like the ammo limits but your gun and gear rules just alienated our whole team. so this will need to be set in stone so we can figure out what to do. we all have tiger stripe but about half is asian stripe,we have 1 tider vest, and four cadpat, and our guns are all over the place,ie: mp5, m16, m4, ak, m60. these are all expensive changes for us to all make just to match? I don't know what would work but anything that tells my guys that in total about 500$ in vests can't be used or i can't use my m16 with tiger stripe or the mp5's is not going to go over well.

rules wrote:

Weapons must match the gear type-this is to keep the realism in play
team terror UZI, AK
Flectarn G36, AUG
ACU armalite, M249

Didn't really notice that, I really don't think that it would be easy to enforce considering how many different types of camo and guns are available. Comes down to that contractor look again Razz Use what works, use what works for a team. If you create a team of tigerstrip and misc guns, I really don't see an issue in that, just say that you are defence contractors at a MilSim. Don't forget that gear rules are for MilSim, ops and everything else (Ops are small milsim) do not have such stringent rules on gear and guns.

Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigerstripe

the countries using it historically have all used preatty much every gun that you have listed, see, you are in the clear Smile

And if anyone is complaining that it is too old, you can always go with:
http://www.hyperstealth.com/tigerpat/

or here is some more recent use:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12624

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 4:38 pm

having gear rules for a milsim seem odd. i can understand team colours and that but we really don't want to tell anybody that they can't come. our prob is to get more people not less. we would nee to adrress this issue as well for ultimatly we would need all the players we can get up here in the north to even have a millsim. a lot of planning would be going into it so i'm sure we can always find a spot for some undercover, or terrorist type.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 4:41 pm

ZEUS wrote:
having gear rules for a milsim seem odd. i can understand team colours and that but we really don't want to tell anybody that they can't come. our prob is to get more people not less. we would nee to adrress this issue as well for ultimatly we would need all the players we can get up here in the north to even have a millsim. a lot of planning would be going into it so i'm sure we can always find a spot for some undercover, or terrorist type.

Ahh, the introduction of mercenaries into airsoft milsims...
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:05 pm

i think low caps should be counted as 1-1 ratio cuz this is airsoft...i don't expect anyone to be accurate...it's just not possible. Personally... i think star mags are useless.

about the gear issue, the north is just starting up and we do need all the pple we can get...maybe the gear thing would be better left for the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:33 pm

chinese_gunman wrote:
i think low caps should be counted as 1-1 ratio cuz this is airsoft...i don't expect anyone to be accurate...it's just not possible. Personally... i think star mags are useless.
.

Yeah, so do I, that is why they are one point. The math works out in the end, it would be silly to change lows to 1 point and reals to 0.5 points.

Math is:

real cap ~30rnds = 1point
low cap ~68rnds = 2 point (60 rnds realcap)
mid cap ~120rnds = 5 points (150 rnds realcap)
hi cap ~400rnds = 15 points (450 rnds realcap)
SAW ~ 1000rnds = 20 points (600 rnds realcap)

This means the best deal are lowcaps or if you have a SAW. SAW is generally restricted to very specific roles and numbers (ie one SAW per squad).

Though I doubt many people will play with realcap, having 10 low caps will give you plenty of ammo. My grip is that midcaps take it in the arse. I mainly use mid caps and I will be lucky to field 480rnds midcap to everyones 680 lows, but for play wise, it should even out.

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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:34 pm

Yuurei wrote:
ZEUS wrote:
having gear rules for a milsim seem odd. i can understand team colours and that but we really don't want to tell anybody that they can't come. our prob is to get more people not less. we would nee to adrress this issue as well for ultimatly we would need all the players we can get up here in the north to even have a millsim. a lot of planning would be going into it so i'm sure we can always find a spot for some undercover, or terrorist type.

Ahh, the introduction of mercenaries into airsoft milsims...

The politically correct term is now contractors, just in case you missed that.

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:39 pm

i say..screw ammo restrictions...the heavier the firefight...the more fun we have...its airsoft...not real life
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:39 pm

I was using the gear stuff as an example not a "you have to fit in these three catagories" I just forgot to put "EXAMPLE" above it. The point with those examples is to keep an AK out of a guy in cadpats hands. I'll do some changing around with that so that it is more inclusive.

Fact is we have only done a few MUST HAVE GEAR GAMES and the numbers were very low but it really made a difference in the gaming. We usually have a Terror team of guys in mixed gear and a team of guys in full gear. The gear rules will change from game to game and scenario like Mike has been trying to get across.

Give me a few mins to correct the gear rules...

My thoughts on mercenaries is that a game would have to call for them. I don't mind some variance in gear within the same pattern but when we really don't match at all then it does take away.

I'm with Geoff that star mags are pretty useless...I'll change it to 80 BBs and less are 1-1.

Remember we are still forming these rules, keep the thoughts coming as we are getting very close to a good conclusion here.
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:44 pm

chinese_gunman wrote:
i say..screw ammo restrictions...the heavier the firefight...the more fun we have...its airsoft...not real life

That is what the other games are for, OPS can be just as detailed as MilSim but not with all the restrictions. MilSim is, well, milsim. Usually a club has one MilSim a year, 3 or 4 ops, and the rest in training or open games.

I would like to see MilSim kept special and only held if enough effort is put in. Lets continue to hold lots of open and OPs games. I prefer OPs anyways because of the fewer restrictions but I would really love to have a serious MilSim that doesn't debase into a competition of who has the better gun, and incorperates alternative skills, military skills, into the game.

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:46 pm

Hortons Heros wrote:


I'm with Geoff that star mags are pretty useless...I'll change it to 80 BBs and less are 1-1.

The math works right now, please do not change it. People with reals will complain and then it sets everything else out of balance, unless you halve the cost of everything else too...

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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:52 pm

OK I missed some stuff in reading there.

If the asian stripe is a close replica of the USA stripe then it fits fine with those parameters. With the vests not matching that does stand out to me as a problem for milsimy type games (that we have yet to run). It will we way to hard to spot friendly or foe when they are wearing a vest that is the enemies pattern. This also gives people something to strive towards when they are forming their gear, knowing that they may need to completely match in their gear type.

I'm going to keep the ammo limits in there because changing mags should be a part of the more serious game play. Getting held down by an MP5 with 200BBs in it just isn't fun. Encourages allot more camping too when you know that once things heat up nobody is going to run out of ammo anytime soon.

Maybe we make our lean our senarious towards Contractors VS Western Military.

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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 6:57 pm

Dave, you have to turn your Starwars gun into an AEG... Bobba Contractor for the win!

-Doug
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 7:04 pm

I love old school Star Wars so much! I could pretty easily fit a V6 in there...hmmm
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PostSubject: Re: Game Style/Type   Game Style/Type - Page 5 EmptyFri 09 Mar 2007, 7:36 pm

You know, since the starwars gun is just a 2 piece shell, you could do the ol' plaster cast of each shell (Vaseline the shell, fill a small box with plaster, press the shell into it leaving it untill the plaster is dry, remove the shell leaving a large imprint of the shell), heat wax and let it soak into the plaster (making it stick proof), then fibreglass and resin the imprint, giving you the ability to make multiple shells at any thickness you wish (I recommend 3 or 4 layers thick with generious resin to get the detail). You could mass produce these for props, sans the copyright infringment.

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